(June 27, 2018 at 7:39 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 26, 2018 at 8:40 am)johan Wrote: It does nothing of the sort. Protecting classes of people does just that, it protects the entire group from being discriminated against based on the class. But you can be a member of a protected class and also be an individual whom I think is an asshole. It is and should be illegal for me to refuse to serve all members of a protected class simply because I think one or more members of that class are assholes. But it is not and should not be illegal for me to refuse to serve any individual I find to be an asshole regardless of what protected class they may also be a member of.

Yea, tell that to blacks who are old enough to remember segregation. Tell that to the Japanese Americans old enough to remember being ILLEGALLY DETAINED without due process during WW2.

Ok so you disagree with me then. Fair enough. 

Quote:[quote pid='1781851' dateline='1530099583']
Yes I can and will tell a fucking bigot to get the fuck out of my business if I owned one. If you allow discrimination to grow horrible things follow.

[/quote]
So would you kick out a bigot who was gay and asian? Because I'm confused. First you sound like you disagree with me, then you say exactly the same thing I'm saying i.e. I'll refuse to serve anyone I think is an asshole.

(June 27, 2018 at 12:43 pm)johan Wrote:

(June 27, 2018 at 7:39 am)Brian37 Wrote: Yea, tell that to blacks who are old enough to remember segregation. Tell that to the Japanese Americans old enough to remember being ILLEGALLY DETAINED without due process during WW2.

Ok so you disagree with me then. Fair enough. 

Quote:[quote pid='1781851' dateline='1530099583']
Yes I can and will tell a fucking bigot to get the fuck out of my business if I owned one. If you allow discrimination to grow horrible things follow.

So would you kick out a bigot who was gay and asian? Because I'm confused. First you sound like you disagree with me, then you say exactly the same thing I'm saying i.e. I'll refuse to serve anyone I think is an asshole.
[/quote]

For clarification, am I smelling the hint of "reverse racism"? I ask because I warn you, that won't wash as an argument with me.

The GOP and business owners in general defend the old line, "right to refuse service for any reason".

Am I willing per say, for example, if I owned a bar and a drunk black or Hispanic or Asian was disruptive? Yes. But that does not address what we are seeing now as far as political scapegoating. I think it is wrong to try to make that false equation.

The difference is I wouldn't be kicking them out based on race or religion or nationality or sexual orientation.

Yes, I will kick your ass out of that same bar, even if you are not drunk, if you come in with KKK symbols or Nazi symbols. Those vile icons only belong in history books and museums as a reminder of what not to do to your fellow human being.

(June 27, 2018 at 12:24 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(June 27, 2018 at 12:18 pm)Shell B Wrote: I see RR's point. I wouldn't serve a KKK rally. However, I do strongly believe that being gay is not comparable to being a member of the KKK. It brings us round to the protected groups and choice debate.

See, i think that rights protect even those I disagree with (such as the KKK).   I don’t think that you can kick a KKK member out of your restaraunt, unless they are causing a commotion or some other justifiable reason.

So back to my original question;  would you agree, if that if someone is not part of a protected class, that they can be descriminated against indiscriminately?

I've responded to that. It's not legally discrimination. Also, again, being a member of the KKK is vastly different from being gay. One is a choice, the other isn't. One has immense ramifications for society. The other has none. Members of the KKK have historically killed people for being a different color. I'd say you're providing security for your place of business if you don't want the KKK in there, which is perfectly acceptable. I reject the comparison between KKK members and gay people. I don't merely disagree with KKK members. They are a legitimate threat to other paying customers, and potentially myself (being a huge N-lover and all).

(June 27, 2018 at 1:33 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(June 27, 2018 at 12:24 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: See, i think that rights protect even those I disagree with (such as the KKK).   I don’t think that you can kick a KKK member out of your restaraunt, unless they are causing a commotion or some other justifiable reason.

So back to my original question;  would you agree, if that if someone is not part of a protected class, that they can be descriminated against indiscriminately?

I've responded to that. It's not legally discrimination. Also, again, being a member of the KKK is vastly different from being gay. One is a choice, the other isn't. One has immense ramifications for society. The other has none. Members of the KKK have historically killed people for being a different color. I'd say you're providing security for your place of business if you don't want the KKK in there, which is perfectly acceptable. I reject the comparison between KKK members and gay people. I don't merely disagree with KKK members. They are a legitimate threat to other paying customers, and potentially myself (being a huge N-lover and all).

Ok... so a group that has previously caused problems such as a gang. I think that can be understandable. What if it is just one member of the group, who is just out with the wife and kids?

And I’m not so much worried about the technicality or legal rebuttal, but what is right and wrong. Do you think that the law reflects a greater moral principle, and that it is wrong to descriminate for similar reasons, even if they are not on a list of being a protected class?

(June 27, 2018 at 1:33 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(June 27, 2018 at 12:24 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: See, i think that rights protect even those I disagree with (such as the KKK).   I don’t think that you can kick a KKK member out of your restaraunt, unless they are causing a commotion or some other justifiable reason.

So back to my original question;  would you agree, if that if someone is not part of a protected class, that they can be descriminated against indiscriminately?

I've responded to that. It's not legally discrimination. Also, again, being a member of the KKK is vastly different from being gay. One is a choice, the other isn't. One has immense ramifications for society. The other has none. Members of the KKK have historically killed people for being a different color. I'd say you're providing security for your place of business if you don't want the KKK in there, which is perfectly acceptable. I reject the comparison between KKK members and gay people. I don't merely disagree with KKK members. They are a legitimate threat to other paying customers, and potentially myself (being a huge N-lover and all).

WAKE UP PLAID PEOPLE!

That would very much depend on each case for me. I couldn't make a broad moral statement regarding refusal of service.

A member of a gang doesn't have to be in a group of gang members to be dangerous. I think it would be fine to reject them if they were with family, though I wouldn't recommend it.

I think the law is flawed because of the two-party system. On certain topics, it gets very twisted as it's dribbled back and forth between two opposing factions. This is one of those topics. All in all, I think people being unable to refuse people based on color, gender and sexual orientation is about as good as it's going to get, and that's good enough for me.

(June 27, 2018 at 2:04 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 27, 2018 at 1:33 pm)Shell B Wrote: I've responded to that. It's not legally discrimination. Also, again, being a member of the KKK is vastly different from being gay. One is a choice, the other isn't. One has immense ramifications for society. The other has none. Members of the KKK have historically killed people for being a different color. I'd say you're providing security for your place of business if you don't want the KKK in there, which is perfectly acceptable. I reject the comparison between KKK members and gay people. I don't merely disagree with KKK members. They are a legitimate threat to other paying customers, and potentially myself (being a huge N-lover and all).

WAKE UP PLAID PEOPLE!

I don't get it.

Perfect example of what you reap what you sow.

(June 27, 2018 at 2:07 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(June 27, 2018 at 2:04 pm)Brian37 Wrote: WAKE UP PLAID PEOPLE!

I don't get it.

It was my silly way of poking fun of asshole bigots "Wake up white people".

I was agreeing with you.

I don't know what plaid people are. Is that a thing?