Posts: 3634
Threads: 20
Joined: July 20, 2011
Reputation:
47
RE: Atheism
June 27, 2018 at 6:24 pm
(This post was last modified: June 27, 2018 at 6:58 pm by Simon Moon.)
(June 27, 2018 at 5:55 pm)sdelsolray Wrote: (June 27, 2018 at 5:41 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: That is the least of his issues on this thread
Perhaps. Still, it is an easy and compact issue, worthy to present and see his response, as that will be a gauge of his intellectual honesty and awareness and an indication of whether he has yet had lessons in relevancy, credibility, reliability, probative value, sufficiency and sources of evidence.
Steve's 'evidence' is kind of analogous to the Seinfeld episode where Kramer is bragging on how he is dominating in his Karate class. Everyone is really impressed, until they find out his class is made up of a bunch of 11 year old kids.
Steve has lowered his standards, for his religion, so much, that his weak evidence is impressive to him. Just as Kramer was really impressed on his Karate skills.
And to take the analogy further, it would be like, even after everyone told Kramer his dominance is meaningless because he is beating a bunch of kids, Kramer came back with, "but I have a cumulative case for my martial arts skills, because I am beating up on a bunch of kids in taekwondo, judo, jujitsu, and krav maga classes also".
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
Posts: 3709
Threads: 18
Joined: September 29, 2015
Reputation:
10
RE: Atheism
June 27, 2018 at 8:08 pm
Testimony is not evidence, you could never convict someone on testimony alone. Set Bill Cosby Free!
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: Atheism
June 27, 2018 at 9:29 pm
(June 27, 2018 at 8:08 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Testimony is not evidence, you could never convict someone on testimony alone. Set Bill Cosby Free!
Do you think that the Bible’s claims and the claims of the Cosby accusers are in any way similar in nature?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 3709
Threads: 18
Joined: September 29, 2015
Reputation:
10
RE: Atheism
June 27, 2018 at 9:39 pm
(June 27, 2018 at 9:29 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (June 27, 2018 at 8:08 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Testimony is not evidence, you could never convict someone on testimony alone. Set Bill Cosby Free!
Do you think that the Bible’s claims and the claims of the Cosby accusers are in any way similar in nature?
Are you saying that it is not about evidence?
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
Posts: 3045
Threads: 14
Joined: July 7, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: Atheism
June 27, 2018 at 9:44 pm
(June 27, 2018 at 5:39 pm)sdelsolray Wrote: SteveII has not yet had the lesson in relevancy, credibility, reliability, probative value, sufficiency and sources of evidence. He appears limited to "counting" items of evidence. And that's before his several cognitive biases are employed.
Lol. Please...enlighten me as to my "cognitive biases"!
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: Atheism
June 27, 2018 at 10:39 pm
(June 27, 2018 at 9:39 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (June 27, 2018 at 9:29 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Do you think that the Bible’s claims and the claims of the Cosby accusers are in any way similar in nature?
Are you saying that it is not about evidence?
I was asking you a question. Are you going to answer it?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 3709
Threads: 18
Joined: September 29, 2015
Reputation:
10
RE: Atheism
June 27, 2018 at 10:44 pm
(June 27, 2018 at 10:39 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (June 27, 2018 at 9:39 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Are you saying that it is not about evidence?
I was asking you a question. Are you going to answer it?
They are different, but that doesn’t change the evidence.... does evidence matter to you?
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: Atheism
June 27, 2018 at 10:53 pm
(This post was last modified: June 27, 2018 at 10:54 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(June 27, 2018 at 10:44 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (June 27, 2018 at 10:39 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I was asking you a question. Are you going to answer it?
They are different, but that doesn’t change the evidence.... does evidence matter to you?
It does. But my standard of evidence for supernatural claims like the ones in the Bible are much higher than for a claim that a powerful, rich, male celebrity took advantage of vulnerable women. For one, I know Bill Cosby exists...
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 8176
Threads: 40
Joined: March 18, 2014
Reputation:
54
RE: Atheism
June 27, 2018 at 10:58 pm
(This post was last modified: June 27, 2018 at 11:01 pm by Ravenshire.)
(June 27, 2018 at 4:53 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: (June 27, 2018 at 4:48 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: What evidence do you have outside a musty old tome of iron age magic and personal testimonials? Oh no gent
The bible is credible because .....Apologist nonsense
Personnel experience counts because ......Argument Ad populum. and no Anecdotal evidence is not stronger by numbers if it's 10 or a million .
I know he's got nothing. You know he's got nothing. But, it's entertaining to watch him trying to spin gold from straw. 
(June 27, 2018 at 5:18 pm)SteveII Wrote: Someone's testimony certainly qualifies as at least information. Are you going to claim all testimony is not evidence? Or is it only testimony you don't believe that isn't evidence?
We all know the bar you set for acceptable testimony is set laughably low. Hint: Hearsay (what's in the buy-bull) is not admissible as evidence except in the kangaroo court you've set up trying to prove to us your gawd exists.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
Posts: 3709
Threads: 18
Joined: September 29, 2015
Reputation:
10
RE: Atheism
June 27, 2018 at 11:06 pm
(June 27, 2018 at 10:53 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (June 27, 2018 at 10:44 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: They are different, but that doesn’t change the evidence.... does evidence matter to you?
It does. But my standard of evidence for supernatural claims like the ones in the Bible are much higher than for a claim that a powerful, rich, male celebrity took advantage of vulnerable women. For one, I know Bill Cosby exists...
So what evidence would be sufficient to learn that something exists? Do you think that bias effects your standards of evidence? There is no epistemological foundation for a shifting standard of evidence. Which is why I asked if evidence matters. What type of evidence would it take?
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
|
