(July 24, 2018 at 7:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Stalin ignored all sorts of warnings that the Germans were going to attack.  The most reasonable explanations I have ever seen for that were,

a) He considered it British disinformation in an attempt to get Russia to join them in the war and,

b) Hitler would have had to be crazy to attack Russia while Britain remained undefeated in the West.

Little did Stalin know that Hitler WAS crazy.

Hitler was a real conspiracy theorist. In his mind the USSR were controlled by Jews and communism was a Jewish plot to take over the world. Not only did Hitler invade Russia but after pearl harbor declared war on the US when they really didn't have to, and it wasn't even certain they'd join the war in Europe. Again, cause capitalism in the US, Jewish plot. Hitler would of been a big fan of Alex Jones today. Also I to astrology, seances, etc etc.

(July 24, 2018 at 7:25 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(July 24, 2018 at 7:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Stalin ignored all sorts of warnings that the Germans were going to attack.  The most reasonable explanations I have ever seen for that were,

a) He considered it British disinformation in an attempt to get Russia to join them in the war and,

b) Hitler would have had to be crazy to attack Russia while Britain remained undefeated in the West.

Little did Stalin know that Hitler WAS crazy.

Richard Sorge, Stalin's spymaster in Japan, told him that the Germans were going to attack Mat Rodina and got the date wrong by 48 hours.

See?  British propaganda.  As the Orange Fucktard is proving every day, when you are an autocrat facts mean nothing.

(July 24, 2018 at 7:32 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(July 24, 2018 at 7:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Stalin ignored all sorts of warnings that the Germans were going to attack.  The most reasonable explanations I have ever seen for that were,

a) He considered it British disinformation in an attempt to get Russia to join them in the war and,

b) Hitler would have had to be crazy to attack Russia while Britain remained undefeated in the West.

Little did Stalin know that Hitler WAS crazy.

Hitler was a real conspiracy theorist. In his mind the USSR were controlled by Jews and communism was a Jewish plot to take over the world. Not only did Hitler invade Russia but after pearl harbor declared war on the US when they really didn't have to, and it wasn't even certain they'd join the war in Europe. Again, cause capitalism in the US, Jewish plot. Hitler would of been a big fan of Alex Jones today. Also I to astrology, seances, etc etc.

And so is the orange fuckface in the White House. America is hanging on by a thread though, but I don't know how much longer.

(July 24, 2018 at 7:34 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 24, 2018 at 7:32 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Hitler was a real conspiracy theorist. In his mind the USSR were controlled by Jews and communism was a Jewish plot to take over the world. Not only did Hitler invade Russia but after pearl harbor declared war on the US when they really didn't have to, and it wasn't even certain they'd join the war in Europe. Again, cause capitalism in the US, Jewish plot. Hitler would of been a big fan of Alex Jones today. Also I to astrology, seances, etc etc.

And so is the orange fuckface in the White House. America is hanging on by a thread though, but I don't know how much longer.

Of course I don't think Trump is Hitler (Hitler killed millions of people) but there is definitely a link between nationalists and conspiracy theories. Do you think Trump asked to be shown where they keep the aliens? I bet he did at some point.

(July 24, 2018 at 7:32 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(July 24, 2018 at 7:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Stalin ignored all sorts of warnings that the Germans were going to attack.  The most reasonable explanations I have ever seen for that were,

a) He considered it British disinformation in an attempt to get Russia to join them in the war and,

b) Hitler would have had to be crazy to attack Russia while Britain remained undefeated in the West.

Little did Stalin know that Hitler WAS crazy.

Hitler was a real conspiracy theorist. In his mind the USSR were controlled by Jews and communism was a Jewish plot to take over the world. Not only did Hitler invade Russia but after pearl harbor declared war on the US when they really didn't have to, and it wasn't even certain they'd join the war in Europe. Again, cause capitalism in the US, Jewish plot. Hitler would of been a big fan of Alex Jones today. Also I to astrology, seances, etc etc.

Well he was right in his conspiracy theory that America hadn't landed on the moon. In that he was ahead of his time.

😊

(July 24, 2018 at 6:31 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I was just watching a documentary on the sick fuck, not that Stalin was any  better. But I did not know before Hitler invaded Poland he had signed a non aggression pact with Russia/Stalin, only to later stupidly try to invade Russia. It's a good thing assholes are stupid.

Did you sleep through your high school history class?

It is easy to say with hindsight and weight of uninformed conventional wisdom that german invasion of Russia was without serious prospect of success. The reality is neither the British nor the Americans general staffs credit Russia with significant prospect of successfully resisting the Germans, even after winter 1941. The US war plan in 1941-1942 envisioned eventually raising 360 army division to take on bulk of the Wehrmacht, as oppose to less than 1/3 of the Wehrmacht the western allies eventually had to contend with, courtesy of the Russians. What is more, the Germans were far closer to actually succeeding in crushing Russia that conventional wisdom would credit, and the gap was largely due to avoidable errors and own goals of a sort that perhaps one would not have expected a military steeped in the Prussian general staff tradition to make.

(July 24, 2018 at 7:43 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(July 24, 2018 at 7:34 pm)Brian37 Wrote: And so is the orange fuckface in the White House. America is hanging on by a thread though, but I don't know how much longer.

Of course I don't think Trump is Hitler (Hitler killed millions of people) but there is definitely a link between nationalists and conspiracy theories. Do you think Trump asked to be shown where they keep the aliens? I bet he did at some point.

Again, like I said, America is hanging on by a thread. It is sad that too much of the Republican party is more loyal to the party than to the protection of checks on power. 

I would hate to think what 45 could do if there were no Constitution.

(July 24, 2018 at 7:43 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(July 24, 2018 at 7:34 pm)Brian37 Wrote: And so is the orange fuckface in the White House. America is hanging on by a thread though, but I don't know how much longer.

Of course I don't think Trump is Hitler (Hitler killed millions of people) but there is definitely a link between nationalists and conspiracy theories. Do you think Trump asked to be shown where they keep the aliens? I bet he did at some point.

Fucker would try to build a wall in space.

---

Quote:What is more, the Germans were far closer to actually succeeding in crushing Russia that conventional wisdom would credit,

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

General Winter saved Russia again.

I had a geography prof in college.  The guy was Lithuanian but he joined the Wehrmacht  in 1941 and moved east.  Later he was wounded and when released from the hospital was sent to North Africa.  He was part of the 250,000 who surrendered in Tunisia in 1943 and was sent to a pow camp in Canada.  Stayed after the war, went to college and 20 years later was teaching in the US.  But he said that marching across the steppes was just like marching across the desert.  Just a deadening sense of descending into nowhere which played hell for morale even when your side was allegedly moving forward.  Interesting guy.  Wicked accent but he could tell a story.

(July 24, 2018 at 8:00 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(July 24, 2018 at 6:31 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I was just watching a documentary on the sick fuck, not that Stalin was any  better. But I did not know before Hitler invaded Poland he had signed a non aggression pact with Russia/Stalin, only to later stupidly try to invade Russia. It's a good thing assholes are stupid.

Did you sleep through your high school history class?

It is easy to say with hindsight and weight of uninformed conventional wisdom that german invasion of Russia was without serious prospect of success.  The reality is neither the British nor the Americans general staffs credit Russia with significant prospect of successfully resisting the Germans, even after winter 1941.  The US war plan in 1941-1942 envisioned eventually raising 360 army division to take on bulk of the Wehrmacht, as oppose to less than 1/3 of the Wehrmacht the western allies eventually had to contend with, courtesy of the Russians.  What is more, the Germans were far closer to actually succeeding in crushing Russia that conventional wisdom would credit, and the gap was largely due to avoidable errors and own goals of a sort that perhaps one would not have expected a military steeped in the Prussian general staff tradition to make.

'tis a good thing then that Hitler made his own "strategies", ultimately leading to his loss. Had he listened to the appropriate military men, we'd all be speaking German.

(July 24, 2018 at 8:56 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:What is more, the Germans were far closer to actually succeeding in crushing Russia that conventional wisdom would credit,

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

General Winter saved Russia again.

Easy to say in retrospect.  In reality getting close is the first step to getting there.    Germany was defeated in Russia not because she crazily tried to do the impossible, but because her own war waging performance, despite brilliant tactical successes, fell far short overall of reasonable expectation while russia’s Performance, despite clumsy tactical failures, was considerably in excess of reasonable expectation.