Would you like me to cite some other counties then? The USA also has a long history of corruption in elections to. Why do you think they use computer algorithms to draw election districts. In the USA there are politicians that chose the votors and not the other way around. You also have legalised bribery of politicians by cooperations and billionaires which means politicians do not represent votors.

(August 1, 2018 at 7:01 pm)ReptilianPeon Wrote: Just to add, India uses first past the poet  (i.e Winner Takes All) which is the same election system as the USA. The paper ballot shows the BJP symbol, thus proving that it is recent. If India, a county of over a billion people can manage paper ballots then so cN the USA!

Once again same system different laws . Once again India has a long history of voter fraud. And the fact America could do it asks the question is it the best way ?

---

(August 1, 2018 at 7:07 pm)ReptilianPeon Wrote: Would you like me to cite some other counties then? The USA also has a long history of corruption in elections to. Why do you think they use computer algorithms to draw election districts. In the USA there are politicians that chose the votors and not the other way around. You also have legalised bribery of politicians by cooperations and billionaires which means politicians do not represent votors.

1. By all mean use another country.

2. Yup America has corruption issues now comes the question are paper ballots going to be the best method to combat it .

If you don't want those pesky Russians "hacking" another election paper is the way to go. Using machines to vote puts you at the mercy of software developers and you don't know how good they are at their job or what their motives. Even if all of the code was open source I would not trust a voting machince.

Billions of dollars rests on the outcome of each election so there is great incentive to hack voting machines. Voter fraud is not really an issue for the USA. It's a Republician talking point which is used to disenfranchise minorities. They want to push voter ID laws so that it limits who can vote.

(August 1, 2018 at 7:17 pm)ReptilianPeon Wrote: If you don't want those pesky Russians "hacking" another election paper is the way to go. Using machines to vote puts you at the mercy of software developers and you don't know how good they are at their job or what their motives. Even if all of the code was open source I would not trust a voting machince.

Billions of dollars rests on the outcome of each election so there is great incentive to hack voting machines. Voter fraud is not really an issue for the USA. It's a Republician talking point which is used to disenfranchise minorities. They want to push voter ID laws so that it limits who can vote.

And i'm saying it might work but is it the overall best solution to election reform aside Russian hacking . Election reform needs to be multi faceted as a solution .

Yes there is lots of money in elections that is vulnerable to attack but again paper has  a cost too .And yes i agree it is a Republican talking point for gerrymandering.

I don't vote, which I suppose is the same as voting "none of the above".

The video I linked to by Nottingham University explains why electronic voting is a really bad Ida but let's put aside all of that and consider the cots of electronic voting compared to paper ballots.

1. You need to pay people to develop the software the voting machines will use.

2. You need people to maintain the software.

3. You will need to pay somebody to design the voting machines themselves (the psychical machines).

4. You need to build and maintain a factory to construct the voting machines.

5. You need to find a place to store the voting machines when they are not being used.

6. You need to pay for transporting voting machines from the secure location that they are being stored at to the places people are going to vote. Voting machines are far heavier than paper ballots after all.

7. You need to pay for people to come and fix broken or faulty voting machines.

8. You need to pay the electricity bills for the voting machines.

9. When old voting machines need to be replaced you need to pay somebody to dispose of the electronic waste as computers contain many hazardous elements within them.

10. You need to pay cyber security experts to ensure the integrity of the elections. Where I live, election results are countered by volunteers and you don't need somebody with a university degree to ensure electoral integrity.

11. You may even need to pay people to audit the results.

I cannot belive you think voting electronically is cheaper. I will not accept it. Fraud happens when elections aren't free and fair and in the UK we get by with paper ballots juat fine, and have done for as long as anyone can remember. Voting machines are a really bad idea. They are not to be trusted.

(August 1, 2018 at 6:39 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The problem with paper ballots is the same as any other ballot.

Quote:“I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how.”

Iosef Stalin 1923

(August 1, 2018 at 4:28 pm)ReptilianPeon Wrote: Surely the likes of Rachel Maddow and, well, Democrats in genera,l should be in the media every single day pushing for paper ballots to secure future elections? Why aren't they?

Because the Russian interference thing is just a smokescreen to keep the rank and file engaged.

If Russia is such a huge issue they need to at least do something to tackle the cybersecurity aspect of this so there are no more hacks into government websites.

(August 2, 2018 at 8:30 am)The Industrial Atheist Wrote: If Russia is such a huge issue they need to at least do something to tackle the cybersecurity aspect of this so there are no more hacks into government websites.

Our elected officials who are in the majority seem to lack the political will to mount a serious defense against foreign powers interfering in the election when the interference benefits their party.