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**robvalue** · October 6, 2018 at 9:56 am

Ask 10 knights what valour means, and you'll get 20 different answers.

(That's from a video game)

Angrboda · October 6, 2018 at 11:45 am

(October 6, 2018 at 9:44 am)robvalue Wrote:
(October 6, 2018 at 9:37 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: How do you determine what a person means on other questions not having to do with God?

For example, if someone asks you, "Do you own a chair?" then how do you determine what they mean by a chair?

Do you ever discuss politics, philosophy, anything where words are not clearly defined?

From my experience, everyone I have ever met means the same thing by "chair". The same goes for many other concepts. There are some words, however, that people vastly disagree about, and it’s those that I require clarification on. The irony is that even after years and years pursuing this question, that 4 part dissection is the best I can do. Most theists don’t even try to define it, in my experience, expecting me to debate myself I suppose!

You didn't answer the question. I asked you how you go about determining what they mean. And no, not everybody means the same thing by chair if there even is a good definition of it, which there really isn't. What does the Platonic form of a chair look like? Does it have three legs or four? Or does it have any legs at all?

**The Grand Nudger** · October 6, 2018 at 11:54 am

@Rob

Sure, their idea of a god may be a little diff than this that or the other god..but all are recognizable with respect to each other as gods for their shared characteristics. If you need the subtleties laid out for you..it's not because you're unclear on the term god in general use..but because you're wondering which god, or what type of god.

In the same way that you might wonder which chair, or what type of chair.

If someone says to you chair -or- god..you're not exactly drawing a blank, right?

**robvalue** · October 6, 2018 at 3:14 pm

I will not have my deeply held disbeliefs mocked like this!

Devout-Humanist · October 6, 2018 at 3:28 pm

(October 6, 2018 at 4:26 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(September 29, 2018 at 3:26 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Ignosticism is a rhetorical device. Just because different people believe in different types of gods, with different attributes, doesn't mean that the term doesn't sensibly and recognizably signify.

I disagree with Khem here. I find ignosticism incredibly appealing as an epistemological position. To me, it says: "I will not believe in something that has not been clearly defined."

I'd like to hear from the ignostics, though. Is ignosticism merely a rhetorical device to you?

I'm an agnostic. My position wasn't selected for its rhetorical prowess. Rather, it is a definite statement concerning my knowledge of God. But I wanna hear from ignostics on this. What say you?

I used to be agnostic because the concept of a personal god made no logical sense to me. There is zero evidence for it; it's all based upon faith. But if everyone else was into it, maybe there was something to it. Then after many years of personal reflection and accumulated scientific knowledge, I've decided there simply is no personal god. Since this is what most people are referring to—at least in America—it's easy to be an atheist. To me, a personal "God" is essentially an adult version of "Santa". That is, "he" watches over you, punishing and rewarding accordingly. Adults don't believe in Santa, but they do believe in God—Go figure!

Angrboda · October 6, 2018 at 5:47 pm

“I would rather be vaguely right than precisely wrong.”

— John Maynard Keynes

Bahana · (This post was last modified: October 6, 2018 at 6:40 pm by Bahana.)

There was a point where I got tired of entertaining the concept of a god defined from holy books and with attributes that are made up by people. You can end up talking in circles once you entertain their concept. For that reason Ignosticism sounds good at times....but sometimes it's fun to argue.

ignoramus · (This post was last modified: October 6, 2018 at 8:18 pm by ignoramus.)

You can't really compare the chair argument here.
No-one cares what type of chair. The type of chair is usually completely irrelevant to the story.
We all know what the general function of a chair is ... Because it is real. We all have and use one.

When a theist starts on about God, he had me at "what the fuck are you on about now!"
God is no chair. He wishes!

Belacqua · October 6, 2018 at 8:44 pm

(October 6, 2018 at 11:45 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: You didn't answer the question. I asked you how you go about determining what they mean. And no, not everybody means the same thing by chair if there even is a good definition of it, which there really isn't. What does the Platonic form of a chair look like? Does it have three legs or four? Or does it have any legs at all?

My department chair has two legs. I've even seen her jogging.

Didn't Wittgenstein demonstrate that there are perfectly good English words which don't have precise definitions? Game. Art. Love.

Also, I seem to recall that apophatic and negative theology agrees that no definition of God is possible. This was no problem for theologians.

ignoramus · (This post was last modified: October 6, 2018 at 9:53 pm by ignoramus.)

As Rob said, God is a loaded word.
Theists may mean to say God is everything, God is love, God is the universe...

An that's fine but I'm not aware of "love" granting me an afterlife.
Where do theists get these definitions from? They make them up, that's where lol.

I think we all agree that God as described by the bible cannot exist. Unless you can convince yourself that the 620 + contractions in the bible are just God not using his autocorrect properly. Dunno

Descriptions of God are really just a nonsensical play on words... Word salad!
Which is why I can't get angry at any theist because I can't them seriously no matter how hard I try.

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