(October 11, 2018 at 10:59 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote:

(October 11, 2018 at 10:38 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: To be pedantic, science has certainly observed the difference between consciousness and unconsciousness.

Science can only observe behavior. By definition behavior of p-zombie is identical to conscious person.

Even if the p-zombie is knocked unconscious?

(October 11, 2018 at 10:59 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote:

(October 11, 2018 at 10:38 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: The problem with p-zombies is that the idea presumes that consciousness isn't a product of brain activity.

And you claim that consciousness is a product of brain activity without any proof.

Quote:given the fact that each of us experiences consciousness directly

Prove it scientifically

I believe that consciousness is a product of brain activity because that is the direction the evidence points. I'm funny like that. Proofs are for math and whiskey, science is about evidence and evaluating it.

If you don't believe your own direct experience, the basis of the definition of consciousness, science can't help you. That I experience consciousness and everyone else's behavior and reportage are similar is sufficient evidence; science is not about what can be proven, it's about what works. It's pretty clear that assuming you're the only conscious being doesn't work very well, it leads to problems.

Do you believe p-zombies are more probable than other humans possessing consciousness the same way you do? If you believe you are the only truly conscious being, why do you suppose the world is constructed in such a fashion...the rest of us only being here to fool you into thinking you're not super special?

(October 11, 2018 at 11:40 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(October 11, 2018 at 11:35 am)Tizheruk Wrote: He will just keep chanting "that's only a behavior "

Yup, but look at this. Direct reconstruction from brain states. Only 1 min 15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZieFvCtMCc0

Dimitry has no choice but to pretend that this does not exist.

I disagree, being the only mind in existence means he believes everything that has ever or will ever be believed.

(October 11, 2018 at 11:10 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(October 11, 2018 at 11:06 am)SteveII Wrote: Off the top of my head: Plutarch is not attesting to the events he writes about. In his defense it was 400 years earlier.

So...that's actually 401 reasons.

But if you check the work, he refers to first-hand testimonies surrounding Alexander the Great's birth.

Exactly how the authors of the Gospels referred to others' testimonies of Jesus' birth.

LOL. So he refers to 400 year old documents we have never seen from people he never met. You got me!! Exactly the same as the NT.

(October 11, 2018 at 11:40 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(October 11, 2018 at 11:35 am)Tizheruk Wrote: He will just keep chanting "that's only a behavior "

Yup, but look at this. Direct reconstruction from brain states. Only 1 min 15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZieFvCtMCc0

Dimitry has no choice but to pretend that this does not exist.

Observing p-zombie brain states will give you same result

(October 11, 2018 at 11:43 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote:

(October 11, 2018 at 11:38 am)possibletarian Wrote: Decoding mental states from brain activity in humans

Is this research based on direct observation of mental states or on reports by supposedly conscious persons?

Why not try some research yourself

Sigh no it won't

(October 11, 2018 at 11:43 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(October 11, 2018 at 11:37 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: P-zombies have same brain activity as conscious person

Then how can you tell the difference?

P-zombie can't experience qualia

(October 11, 2018 at 11:46 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote:

(October 11, 2018 at 11:40 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Yup, but look at this. Direct reconstruction from brain states. Only 1 min 15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZieFvCtMCc0

Dimitry has no choice but to pretend that this does not exist.

Observing p-zombie brain states will give you same result

When did the experiment take place to determine that ?

(October 11, 2018 at 11:06 am)SteveII Wrote:

(October 11, 2018 at 10:51 am)Grandizer Wrote: Ok, I'll give one myself. Alexander the Great was conceived in a miraculous manner, according to this ~historical~ work:
http://www.livius.org/sources/content/pl...alexander/

Why should we not take this to be true?

Off the top of my head: Plutarch is not attesting to the events he writes about. In his defense it was 400 years earlier.

So...that's actually 401 reasons.

So if he was attesting to the events he writes about and it was 50 years earlier, that would be 50 reasons. Are you willing to apply that reasoning elsewhere?