Demons and dark wizards... I had no idea Islam was simply a Yu-Gi-Oh! expansion.

(October 28, 2018 at 5:30 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(October 28, 2018 at 5:10 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Two bald men, fighting over an hairbrush. That came into my mind.

You used "an" and you should use "a".

Pró caralho. Mr grammar Nazi. Translate that from Portuguese

(October 28, 2018 at 5:32 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Demons and dark wizards... I had no idea Islam was simply a Yu-Gi-Oh! expansion.

Or another Diablo franchize.

(October 28, 2018 at 6:52 pm)LastPoet Wrote:

(October 28, 2018 at 5:30 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: You used "an" and you should use "a".

Pró caralho. Mr grammar Nazi. Translate that from Portuguese

Simple, it means "somebody who agrees with caralho". I'm also sure that the "h" is silent.
لو سمحت انت, مو انا.

I don't care how many ways you translate it.  It's still nothing but a turd in the field of life.

(October 28, 2018 at 3:22 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(October 28, 2018 at 3:13 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Of ocurse its MK and not you who is lying/wrong, right?
Pay attention to what? To your of MKs interpretation of your holy scripture?

First you should explain to me which one of you is right, and why he is right, then i am gonna put my popcorn away and read anything. Prior to that i wont waste my time with yet another holy scripture (as if there werent already enough of em around).


But i agree, you are what you read. In your case, you are reading fairy tales, which makes you gullible, and there is notihng you can say that will change this fact.
Me, on the other hand, i am sceptic, and dont accept any unsubstantiated BS.

So I don't take orders from anyone; especially people who think they are smarter than other people which is such a turn off !

My irony-meter just exploded. I originally only remarked that its funny to see two Muslims arguing over the correct interpetation of the Quran.
It was you who told me to read and learn, which is ironical as well, considering that reading doesnt mean accepting all unsubstatiated BS.

So who started telling whom to do what?

(October 28, 2018 at 3:22 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Life is a very dark place. What you call fairy tales is what we theists love to read to find comfort in; really is better or the stories they call "news"? faith is mostly about holding to the belief that someday, we'll go to a better place; forever.

Is this a silent admission that you actually have no better reason to believe than "comfort" or "distraction from reaity"? And then you get into arguments with other people why the situation in your part of the world stull sucks, but not in other?
Breaking news: taking a pain killer doesnt cure the illness, it just removes the pain, and often has severe side effects.

Look: i have sympathy for your situation, living in Arabia and under circumstances much worse than mine. But Islam is not a way cope with the situation, its a major part of the problem you guys have down there!

(October 29, 2018 at 3:14 am)Deesse23 Wrote:

(October 28, 2018 at 3:22 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: So I don't take orders from anyone; especially people who think they are smarter than other people which is such a turn off !

My irony-meter just exploded. I originally only remarked that its funny to see two Muslims arguing over the correct interpetation of the Quran.
It was you who told me to read and learn, which is ironical as well, considering that reading doesnt mean accepting all unsubstatiated BS.

So who started telling whom to do what?

We weren't "arguing" or even "discussing"; he was bombarding the place with wrong info. Which I can't remain silent to.
There is a very big difference between "different perspectives" and between "false perspectives".
Being a Muslim doesn't excuse me, or give me the right to lie. It sure is doesn't give me the right to defend the lie just because it was said by a Muslim.
Actually; Quran wise; there's an explicit verse about this:

Quote:Sura 4, The Quran:
Sahih International

(135) O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.

In other words; it's a religious sentence upon my back to expose what I know for sure is wrong; that's called justice. Even if it means "exposing myself".

Quote:Is this a silent admission that you actually have no better reason to believe than "comfort" or "distraction from reaity"? And then you get into arguments with other people why the situation in your part of the world stull sucks, but not in other?
Breaking news: taking a pain killer doesnt cure the illness, it just removes the pain, and often has severe side effects.

Look: i have sympathy for your situation, living in Arabia and under circumstances much worse than mine. But Islam is not a way cope with the situation, its a major part of the problem you guys have down there!

I didn't see God, the angles, the devil or an alien. The only thing I saw was a design that makes sense, I know for sure that "something" cannot be originated from "nothing"; and the universe began from nothing.

Take the Big Bang Model -which is the most probable-: Energy, time and space already assumed existing before the bang even happens:

Quote:The Big Bang as the origin of the universe: One of the common misconceptions about the Big Bang model is the belief that it was the origin of the universe. However, the Big Bang model does not comment about how the universe came into being. Current conception of the Big Bang model assumes the existence of energy, time, and space, and does not comment about their origin or the cause of the dense and high temperature initial state of the universe.[134]

This is reality. I don't want a president or a politician that ignores such mystery and keeps repeating to me "the same old lies". At least; with the Quran I can rest assured that the big bang was caused by God. If the main three "energy-time-space" are "assumed" for the theory to work; then I can also assume the existence of a God behind their existence.

Thank you for putting yourself in my shoes for a little while. Saudi Arabia -and the whole Middle East- is corrupted by money before religion; Arab dictators have lots of cash but they never read. So someday their cash would end; and I don't expect that any knowledge will enter their heads.

What would the Household of Guidance be without the Great Guidance?

(October 29, 2018 at 12:30 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: We weren't "arguing" or even "discussing"; he was bombarding the place with wrong info. Which I can't remain silent to.
There is a very big difference between "different perspectives" and between "false perspectives".
Being a Muslim doesn't excuse me, or give me the right to lie. It sure is doesn't give me the right to defend the lie just because it was said by a Muslim.
Actually; Quran wise; there's an explicit verse about this:

Quote:Sura 4, The Quran:
Sahih International

(135) O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.

In other words; it's a religious sentence upon my back to expose what I know for sure is wrong; that's called justice. Even if it means "exposing myself".

Please dont throw verses at me, with your particular explanation, thats what everybody does, MK too!

Please look at the situation from my perspective: believers tell me all the time that their interpretation of their holy scriptures is right and everybody else is wrong. They interpret "yes" as "no" and "no" as "perhaps" and "black" as white" most of the time. Another time the "yes" is actually a "yes".      As a person external to the according cult, i seriously can not decide who or what is right or wrong. You know why? Because you guys dont have a reliable method to tell right from wrong, a way of confirming what your scripture (according to you) says, a standard to demonstrate to me that what you are claiming (your scripture says) is true and what someone else saying is wrong.

(October 29, 2018 at 12:30 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: I didn't see God, the angles, the devil or an alien. The only thing I saw was a design that makes sense, I know for sure that "something" cannot be originated from "nothing"; and the universe began from nothing.
Take the Big Bang Model -which is the most probable-: Energy, time and space already assumed existing before the bang even happens:

Quote:The Big Bang as the origin of the universe: One of the common misconceptions about the Big Bang model is the belief that it was the origin of the universe. However, the Big Bang model does not comment about how the universe came into being. Current conception of the Big Bang model assumes the existence of energy, time, and space, and does not comment about their origin or the cause of the dense and high temperature initial state of the universe.[134]

This is reality. I don't want a president or a politician that ignores such mystery and keeps repeating to me "the same old lies". At least; with the Quran I can rest assured that the big bang was caused by God.

What (the fuck) has the big bang or anything else to do with the veracity of the claims of your scripture? Right: ab.so.lutely.nothing.
The Quran is true because the Quran is true, not because something else is false. What you are bringing to the table is the weakest possible argument for your belief i can think of: Namely no argument for your religion at all, but (strawman or very bad ones) against something else (big bang).

At least with the Quran you can rest assured....? Seriously? Really? You arent trolling me now? That is the very definition of gullibility. Textbook case and wikipedia entry worth genuine and pure gullibility. If i have ever accused you of being gullible (and i have) and if you ever have rejected my claim, you just have given the most unquestionable evidence in favour of my claim.

You also have confirmed my suspicion that your belief doenst actually go very deep, but that its a coping mechanism and a "way out" of how desperate you perceive your life situation to be. And i seriously and genuinely pity you for that.

Just for giggles i will comment your (irrelevant!) arguments and show why even they hold no water at all (in their irrelevancy):
#1 nobody claimed "something from noting". You are strawmanning modern astrophysics.
#2 Design and it making sense to you: the universe doesnt give a fuck what makes sense to you (see: quantum physics and relativity). Something is right or wrong, because there is evidence, not because "it makes sense". I find this argument particularly ridiculous that it seems to make more sense to you that someone rode on a horse into "heaven" and the moon was split into half, amongst other absurd things. How does that make more sense to you than anything an astrophsicist claims (which is, by the way, mostly based on facts, and already established and falified knowledge, something your scripture is not even coming remotely close to)??????

(October 29, 2018 at 12:30 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: If the main three "energy-time-space" are "assumed" for the theory to work; then I can also assume the existence of a God behind their existence.

Yes this is the point where you become completely unreasonable, and i think you (probably) know it.
You can assume what you want, i can asume what i want, everybody else can assume what he/she wants. So what? Does that make anyone of us right? No.
It just makes us intellectually dishonest! Assuming something out of nothing (aka. pulling stuff out of your ass) is called: making shit up!

The intellectually honest and correct answer, according to your (and mine, and everybody elses!) knowledge is: We dont know. There is abolutely no reason to claim to know something you admit not to know. If you do so, it just shows your psychological need (being uncomfortable with uncertainty, since there is already a lot of uncertainty in your life where you live) of certainty, even if its faked / a lie. Living a lie does not make your live better, it just makes you forget, just like Opium.

(October 29, 2018 at 12:30 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Thank you for putting yourself in my shoes for a little while. Saudi Arabia -and the whole Middle East- is corrupted by money before religion; Arab dictators have lots of cash but they never read. So someday their cash would end; and I don't expect that any knowledge will enter their heads.

You are welcome, and i am 100% honest, and nothing hidden in between the lines. I am happy and thankful, not having to live where you live.  

You are writing much about how you get exploited by the west and your own government/elites. What you dont seem to realize (and i pointed it out) is that religion, your particular one, and the particular way its being lived is a major part of your abuse. You cant throw off your shackles when you dont know what and where you shackles in fact are. You are complainig about your feets being tied up (exploited by Sauds) but dont realize your hands are tied up too (by religion, forcing you to abandon reason and be completely unreasonable and live in a fantasy).

Living in a fantasy never has helped anyone to deal with reality. Ask any doctor in any asylum around the world. Then ask the patients. Then put both informations together and then tell me who of them was right.

(October 29, 2018 at 2:54 pm)Deesse23 Wrote:

(October 29, 2018 at 12:30 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: We weren't "arguing" or even "discussing"; he was bombarding the place with wrong info. Which I can't remain silent to.
There is a very big difference between "different perspectives" and between "false perspectives".
Being a Muslim doesn't excuse me, or give me the right to lie. It sure is doesn't give me the right to defend the lie just because it was said by a Muslim.
Actually; Quran wise; there's an explicit verse about this:
In other words; it's a religious sentence upon my back to expose what I know for sure is wrong; that's called justice. Even if it means "exposing myself".

Please dont throw verses at me, with your particular explanation, thats what everybody does, MK too!

Please look at the situation from my perspective: believers tell me all the time that their interpretation of their holy scriptures is right and everybody else is wrong. They interpret "yes" as "no" and "no" as "perhaps" and "black" as white" most of the time. Another time the "yes" is actually a "yes".      As a person external to the according cult, i seriously can not decide who or what is right or wrong. You know why? Because you guys dont have a reliable method to tell right from wrong, a way of confirming what your scripture (according to you) says, a standard to demonstrate to me that what you are claiming (your scripture says) is true and what someone else saying is wrong.

I'm not throwing verses. I'm giving you my own personal faith about it; and giving you the reason I justify such a believe (which is a justification derived 100% from a book called "The Quran".

I'm dead sure about my opinion because it's of a linguistic base; the literal verse means the exact translation, I pasted it right, put the source, rechecked because I'm an Arab fluent in Arabic and read the Quran probably daily, read how so many scholars interpreted it, I can track it on a physical Arabic Quran -or E-Quran- then explain it word by word.

I'm 100% sure. The OP lied and twisted the text, no doubt. He is discussing a verse he invented and that doesn't exist. Other Arabic readers are welcome to validate what I said.

Quote:What (the fuck) has the big bang or anything else to do with the veracity of the claims of your scripture? Right: ab.so.lutely.nothing.
The Quran is true because the Quran is true, not because something else is false. What you are bringing to the table is the weakest possible argument for your belief i can think of: Namely no argument for your religion at all, but (strawman or very bad ones) against something else (big bang).

At least with the Quran you can rest assured....? Seriously? Really? You arent trolling me now? That is the very definition of gullibility. Textbook case and wikipedia entry worth genuine and pure gullibility. If i have ever accused you of being gullible (and i have) and if you ever have rejected my claim, you just have given the most unquestionable evidence in favour of my claim.

You also have confirmed my suspicion that your belief doenst actually go very deep, but that its a coping mechanism and a "way out" of how desperate you perceive your life situation to be. And i seriously and genuinely pity you for that.

Just for giggles i will comment your (irrelevant!) arguments and show why even they hold no water at all (in their irrelevancy):
#1 nobody claimed "something from noting". You are strawmanning modern astrophysics.
#2 Design and it making sense to you: the universe doesnt give a fuck what makes sense to you (see: quantum physics and relativity). Something is right or wrong, because there is evidence, not because "it makes sense". I find this argument particularly ridiculous that it seems to make more sense to you that someone rode on a horse into "heaven" and the moon was split into half, amongst other absurd things. How does that make more sense to you than anything an astrophsicist claims (which is, by the way, mostly based on facts, and already established and falified knowledge, something your scripture is not even coming remotely close to)??????

No; you actually said this:

Quote:Deesse23 said:
Is this a silent admission that you actually have no better reason to believe than "comfort" or "distraction from reaity"?

So I gave you another reason which is "the design of the universe...take the big bang for example......."

Quote:You also have confirmed my suspicion that your belief doenst actually go very deep, but that its a coping mechanism and a "way out" of how desperate you perceive your life situation to be. And i seriously and genuinely pity you for that.

Exactly, experience in life is one of the big causes of belief. To learn about the design, you must experience it. And that experience is life itself.
Getting out of the depressive state doesn't mean that I will lose what I used to think about..I am very convinced with the existence of a God.

Quote:#1 nobody claimed "something from noting". You are strawmanning modern astrophysics.

Energy, space and time. They are assumed to "be there" before the big bang, just like a Muslim claims that God is "there" before everything.

Quote:#2 Design and it making sense to you: the universe doesnt give a fuck what makes sense to you (see: quantum physics and relativity). Something is right or wrong, because there is evidence, not because "it makes sense". I find this argument particularly ridiculous that it seems to make more sense to you that someone rode on a horse into "heaven" and the moon was split into half, amongst other absurd things. How does that make more sense to you than anything an astrophsicist claims (which is, by the way, mostly based on facts, and already established and falified knowledge, something your scripture is not even coming remotely close to)??????

I know. It doesn't have a brain and I accept that.

Quote:Yes this is the point where you become completely unreasonable, and i think you (probably) know it.
You can assume what you want, i can asume what i want, everybody else can assume what he/she wants. So what? Does that make anyone of us right? No.
It just makes us intellectually dishonest! Assuming something out of nothing (aka. pulling stuff out of your ass) is called: making shit up!

The intellectually honest and correct answer, according to your (and mine, and everybody elses!) knowledge is: We dont know. There is abolutely no reason to claim to know something you admit not to know. If you do so, it just shows your psychological need (being uncomfortable with uncertainty, since there is already a lot of uncertainty in your life where you live) of certainty, even if its faked / a lie. Living a lie does not make your live better, it just makes you forget, just like Opium.

?
The big bang is speaking about a real, existing space, with real natural powers/dimensions, they didn't exist in another universe; they existed in this one and merged to blow -we are living the shock-wave of that explosion now. The three must be assumed for the theory to be right; and as they were assumed out of thin air; I can also assume God exists.

Nobody knows a thing about our cosmic origins. Everybody is guessing, and guessing is not the truth.

Quote:You are welcome, and i am 100% honest, and nothing hidden in between the lines. I am happy and thankful, not having to live where you live.  

You are writing much about how you get exploited by the west and your own government/elites. What you dont seem to realize (and i pointed it out) is that religion, your particular one, and the particular way its being lived is a major part of your abuse. You cant throw off your shackles when you dont know what and where you shackles in fact are. You are complainig about your feets being tied up (exploited by Sauds) but dont realize your hands are tied up too (by religion, forcing you to abandon reason and be completely unreasonable and live in a fantasy).

Living in a fantasy never has helped anyone to deal with reality. Ask any doctor in any asylum around the world. Then ask the patients. Then put both informations together and then tell me who of them was right.

Because Islam truly is not the hellish beast the Right and different wings picture it to be. The source book of the religion -the Quran- carried officially explicit whole verses that prevent terrorist and demolish the bloody picture we see Muslims in all the time in the T.V or the internet.

My abuse would end today if the verses of the Quran were practiced, without twisting or forging. A speaker in Arabic can even check the message, and there are millions of them. Instead of blowing bombs and kill each other; let the language come in between the fighting sides.

I believe in on rule: there is no smoke without fire. The Quran is 600 and something pages, there is no smoke coming out of it for me..