(November 1, 2018 at 9:29 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(November 1, 2018 at 9:21 am)CarveTheFive Wrote: Really?

Can you explain more?

How can true nothingness 'exist'? Ignoring the semantics issue of even saying that, how long could a state of nothingness last with no time? No time at all, I'd say. And it seems like there are an infinite number of possible other states than nothingness, but only one way for there to not be anything. And what property of nothingness would prevent there being something, if the only property of nothingness is the absence of anything, including other properties? Absolute nothingness: no matter, energy, space, time, or vacuum fluctuations seems like the most unlikely possible state of affairs to prevail.

Thank you. That’s intense and smart. Tbh, I’m going to have to let that sink in for a while.

Btw, have you read


A Universe from Nothing by Lawrence M. Krauss

I read it and kind of thought he was just pulling ideas out of his ass but I’m not really sure

Thanks again for your reply. It’s cool when someone gives you a new way to think about something

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(November 1, 2018 at 9:33 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(November 1, 2018 at 9:29 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: How can true nothingness 'exist'? Ignoring the semantics issue of even saying that, how long could a state of nothingness last with no time? No time at all, I'd say. And it seems like there are an infinite number of possible other states than nothingness, but only one way for there to not be anything. And what property of nothingness would prevent there being something, if the only property of nothingness is the absence of anything, including other properties? Absolute nothingness: no matter, energy, space, time, or vacuum fluctuations seems like the most unlikely possible state of affairs to prevail.

Yeah.  The concept of "nothingness" is sorta..well, inconceivable.  It's not an idea that I can coherently hold in my head because its definitions are so nonsensical.  And how can nothingness 'exist', if existence is a property of something?

That seems like a paradox based on the limitations of language more than a real philosophical problem.

It would seem like there would have to be something or nothing.

I guess we got lucky.

(November 1, 2018 at 10:10 am)CarveTheFive Wrote:

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(November 1, 2018 at 9:33 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Yeah.  The concept of "nothingness" is sorta..well, inconceivable.  It's not an idea that I can coherently hold in my head because its definitions are so nonsensical.  And how can nothingness 'exist', if existence is a property of something?

That seems like a paradox based on the limitations of language more than a real philosophical problem.

I don't agree.  Can you conceive, in a coherent way, the characteristics of 'nothing'?  Could you describe it in any way, at all?

(November 1, 2018 at 10:10 am)CarveTheFive Wrote:

(November 1, 2018 at 9:29 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: How can true nothingness 'exist'? Ignoring the semantics issue of even saying that, how long could a state of nothingness last with no time? No time at all, I'd say. And it seems like there are an infinite number of possible other states than nothingness, but only one way for there to not be anything. And what property of nothingness would prevent there being something, if the only property of nothingness is the absence of anything, including other properties? Absolute nothingness: no matter, energy, space, time, or vacuum fluctuations seems like the most unlikely possible state of affairs to prevail.

Thank you. That’s intense and smart. Tbh, I’m going to have to let that sink in for a while.

Btw, have you read


A Universe from Nothing by Lawrence M. Krauss

I read it and kind of thought he was just pulling ideas out of his ass but I’m not really sure

Thanks again for your reply. It’s cool when someone gives you a new way to think about something

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(November 1, 2018 at 9:33 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Yeah.  The concept of "nothingness" is sorta..well, inconceivable.  It's not an idea that I can coherently hold in my head because its definitions are so nonsensical.  And how can nothingness 'exist', if existence is a property of something?

That seems like a paradox based on the limitations of language more than a real philosophical problem.

A theoretical physicist wanted to buy a house on a lake. The real estate agent asks him what his parameters are for the house/lot. The physicist says, "I want two piers on both sides of my boat. The real estate agent asks, "Why do you want two piers?" The physicist responds, "That way I can create a pair of docks."

HA, I MADE A FUNNY!

(November 2, 2018 at 7:56 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(November 1, 2018 at 10:10 am)CarveTheFive Wrote:

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That seems like a paradox based on the limitations of language more than a real philosophical problem.

I don't agree.  Can you conceive, in a coherent way, the characteristics of 'nothing'?  Could you describe it in any way, at all?

Take away everything. What's left is nothing. Don't strain at that gnat.

(November 2, 2018 at 8:22 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(November 2, 2018 at 7:56 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I don't agree.  Can you conceive, in a coherent way, the characteristics of 'nothing'?  Could you describe it in any way, at all?

Take away everything. What's left is nothing. Don't strain at that gnat.

Including space?  Atoms? Nothingness is just a nonsensical concept to me.

(November 2, 2018 at 8:56 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(November 2, 2018 at 8:22 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Take away everything. What's left is nothing. Don't strain at that gnat.

Including space?  Atoms?  Nothingness is just a nonsensical concept to me.

It's nothing to stress about, certainly.

(November 2, 2018 at 8:57 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(November 2, 2018 at 8:56 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Including space?  Atoms?  Nothingness is just a nonsensical concept to me.

It's nothing to stress about, certainly.

I wouldn't say I'm stressing about it, I'm just saying it's a rather useless concept because it's nonsensical.  So when someone says "how can something come from nothing?", I just find the question to be worthless.

(November 2, 2018 at 8:22 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(November 2, 2018 at 7:56 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I don't agree.  Can you conceive, in a coherent way, the characteristics of 'nothing'?  Could you describe it in any way, at all?

Take away everything. What's left is nothing. Don't strain at that gnat.

The question is if it's even possible to take away everything. Maybe "everything" just is, and you can't get rid of it in any way.

Furthermore, if what's left is nothing at all, then that's the equivalent of saying absolute nothingness exists, and that itself is a logical contradiction.

(November 2, 2018 at 8:58 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(November 2, 2018 at 8:57 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: It's nothing to stress about, certainly.

I wouldn't say I'm stressing about it, I'm just saying it's a rather useless concept because it's nonsensical.  So when someone says "how can something come from nothing?", I just find the question to be worthless.

I was being jocular.

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(November 2, 2018 at 9:07 am)Grandizer Wrote:

(November 2, 2018 at 8:22 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Take away everything. What's left is nothing. Don't strain at that gnat.

The question is if it's even possible to take away everything. Maybe "everything" just is, and you can't get rid of it in any way.

Furthermore, if what's left is nothing at all, then that's the equivalent of saying absolute nothingness exists, and that itself is a logical contradiction.

Two states, something and nothing. Are you saying that "something" is the only possible state?