(November 2, 2018 at 9:19 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(November 2, 2018 at 8:58 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I wouldn't say I'm stressing about it, I'm just saying it's a rather useless concept because it's nonsensical.  So when someone says "how can something come from nothing?", I just find the question to be worthless.

I was being jocular.

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(November 2, 2018 at 9:07 am)Grandizer Wrote: The question is if it's even possible to take away everything. Maybe "everything" just is, and you can't get rid of it in any way.

Furthermore, if what's left is nothing at all, then that's the equivalent of saying absolute nothingness exists, and that itself is a logical contradiction.

Two states, something and nothing. Are you saying that "something" is the only possible state?

More like all possible states must be "something".

(November 2, 2018 at 8:56 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(November 2, 2018 at 8:22 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Take away everything. What's left is nothing. Don't strain at that gnat.

Including space?  Atoms?  Nothingness is just a nonsensical concept to me.

Why? You didn't exist 4 billion years ago did you? So why would our universe needed to have existed prior to the singularity?

Instead of thinking of it as something vs nothing. Think of it as like a light switch which goes from the "off" position to the "on" position fluctuating between those two states. 

Laurence Krauss has put it, and quite aptly so "Nothing is unstable". Meaning a quantum state of "nothing" cannot stay that way.

I see "all this" including the hypothesis's of parallel universes, multiverses, and bubble universes as simply one giant wave function. Like water boiling, expending all it's energy until it runs out of energy back to a state of "nothing", only to have another quantum twitch that leads to something.

We still have yet to figure out nothing prior, or something prior sure, but none of what science is pointing to needs anything super natural to cause. Just like each season on our planet is finite and over lapping but keeps repeating.

It is hard for the layperson to think of particles popping in and out of existence but they do. Just like it is hard to think of a particle as both a particle and a wave at the same time. 

Point is stop stressing over it, it is what it is, and answers do not come from speculation or denial.

(November 2, 2018 at 9:52 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 2, 2018 at 8:56 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Including space?  Atoms?  Nothingness is just a nonsensical concept to me.

Why? You didn't exist 4 billion years ago did you? So why would our universe needed to have existed prior to the singularity?

Instead of thinking of it as something vs nothing. Think of it as like a light switch which goes from the "off" position to the "on" position fluctuating between those two states. 

Laurence Krauss has put it, and quite aptly so "Nothing is unstable". Meaning a quantum state of "nothing" cannot stay that way.

I see "all this" including the hypothesis's of parallel universes, multiverses, and bubble universes as simply one giant wave function. Like water boiling, expending all it's energy until it runs out of energy back to a state of "nothing", only to have another quantum twitch that leads to something.

We still have yet to figure out nothing prior, or something prior sure, but none of what science is pointing to needs anything super natural to cause. Just like each season on our planet is finite and over lapping but keeps repeating.

It is hard for the layperson to think of particles popping in and out of existence but they do. Just like it is hard to think of a particle as both a particle and a wave at the same time. 

Point is stop stressing over it, it is what it is, and answers do not come from speculation or denial.

I don't know why you think I'm stressing over it, I don't stay up at night thinking about "nothingness".  I'm saying that, in a theological/philosophical context, 'nothing' is nonsensical if you're talking about it as something that might exist, or might be a state of existence.  When a theist says "how can something come from nothing" or "why is there something rather than nothing", I simply don't know what they're trying to describe.  And saying "it's the opposite of something" is about as unhelpful as saying...well, nothing.  

It might be the case that something must exist out of necessity, it might not be the case.  I'm not speculating, I'm not drawing any conclusions, and I'm certainly not pointing to anything supernatural (I literally have never done so), I'm just saying I don't understand a theist's use of the word/concept "nothing." I just want to know what they mean.

That's all.

Nothing scares some folks.

I got nothing.

I am nothing,
Since nothing is perfect and only god is perfect, therefore:
I am god.

Now give me 10% of your net wage.

Nothing is sacred.

(November 2, 2018 at 4:45 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Nothing is sacred.

What about every sperm?

Okay this is some deep stuff.  And I've bitten my tongue and behaved myself for three full pages, just respectfully WAITING for somebody else to point it out.  

I just can't take it any more....

Brain Cox."
"BRAIN COX."

Isn't that just a nice politically correct way to say "Dickhead?"

(November 2, 2018 at 6:19 pm)outtathereligioncloset Wrote: Okay this is some deep stuff.  And I've bitten my tongue and behaved myself for three full pages, just respectfully WAITING for somebody else to point it out.  

I just can't take it any more....

Brain Cox."
"BRAIN COX."

Isn't that just a nice politically correct way to say "Dickhead?"

I was drunk ok!!