Quote:

Worldwide, but especially in the West, the incidence of autoimmune disease is increasing, a trend accompanied by the development of the processed food and food additives industries. This steady rise in autoimmunity is also seen in MS, a debilitating disease whose cause is still not fully known, but is suspected to be an interaction of genetic, immunologic and environmental factors.

As modern diet is mostly composed of goods provided by big companies dominating the food market from East to West; the food we get as Middle Eastern people is the same modern brand, made by the same name supplying the rest of the world.

M.S was always thought to be a European disease that affects Europe only, but as the time progressed and news could be shared more easily, it was also proved the disease exists in places like the Middle East, and rising too.

Quote:Researchers investigated the correlation between autoimmunity and industrial food additives, used in processed foods to improve such things as taste, smell, texture, and shelf life. They found that the additives glucose (sugars), sodium (salt), fat solvents (emulsifiers), organic acids, gluten, microbial enzyme transglutaminase, and nanometric particles all weakened tight junctions, leading to a more permeable intestinal mucosa, a key factor in autoimmunity. With all the information gathered on this subject, researchers recommend that autoimmune disease patients, and their family members, avoid processed foods as much as possible.

So it is not a regional problem as much as it is a "diet problem". I can bet all M.S patients had an imbalanced diet of some sort for a long time, and genetics completed the rest: writing "M.S" on the patient's health.

I would really like to ask: if the case is really like that -and it is-; this is not based on a theory but on findings; why are the big food companies are not ordered to follow regulations that would make better food, empty of additives ?

I suggest to all M.S patients to look more into their diets, sometimes it's better of a treatment.

There are so many things in the diet it could be. Or a combination of many of them. For example it could be intestinal permeability combined with milk consumption. People in the west evolved to be able to drink cow's milk after we got into the habit of drinking it. The gene for being able to tolerate lactose should switch off after childhood but now it's continued into adulthood. I read an article about humans are still evolving and this was one example. I've always had a low level intolerance to milk which got worse in my 40's which is when I got MS. The theory of molecular mimicry for MS postulates that leaky gut syndrome allows lactose into the blood where the immune system learns to see it as a foreign body. And permeability in the blood brain barrier allows it to get through to the brain. So I also suffered from Glandular Fever (Mononucleosis, Epstein Barr virus) over 20 years ago which has also been linked to MS and this could have damaged the blood brain barrier.

I have also wondered about processed oils. They get processed way beyond what they would naturally be eating and appear in almost all the food you buy in the supermarkets. Manufacturers don't care. There is little demand for food without these oils and they allow for greater profits as food can last on the shelf longer. I have often spoken to people who don't have MS but other undiagnosed conditions that they treat by eating healthily. That means whole food and decent unprocessed oil.

It's a possibility.

https://www.healthline.com/health/multip...ial-causes

Quote:Scientists believe that people with MS are born with a genetic susceptibility to react to certain (unknown) environmental agents. An autoimmune response is triggered when they encounter these agents.

At least it has not been ruled out.

And I've been suspicious about modern food processing techniques since I realized that when I was in grade school no one ever heard of a "peanut allergy."  This was the 50's and early 60's and every other kid brought a peanut butter and jelly sandwich to school for lunch and no one ever collapsed into a quivering puddle of piss because there was a peanut in the cafeteria.  It is not logical to assume that the peanuts changed.  It is also not logical to assume that humans changed.  Evolution does not work that fast.  So what chemicals were introduced into the peanut manufacturing and preserving business?  IOW, people who now get deathly ill from exposure to peanuts may not be reacting to the nut but rather to what the producers put into the nut.

I've had the same discussion with vets when they start talking about food allergies in dogs; to chicken, to grain, to whatever.  The chicken hasn't changed but now they shoot it up with all sorts of chemicals during processing. 

So I don't think you're crazy, Atlas.  The problem is that you then get into the genetic component wherein some people do not react at all and others get deathly ill. 

Aye, there's the rub, to quote the bard.

(November 14, 2018 at 6:18 am)Mathilda Wrote: There are so many things in the diet it could be. Or a combination of many of them. For example it could be intestinal permeability combined with milk consumption. People in the west evolved to be able to drink cow's milk after we got into the habit of drinking it. The gene for being able to tolerate lactose should switch off after childhood but now it's continued into adulthood.  I read an article about humans are still evolving and this was one example. I've always had a low level intolerance to milk which got worse in my 40's which is when I got MS. The theory of molecular mimicry for MS postulates that leaky gut syndrome allows lactose into the blood where the immune system learns to see it as a foreign body. And permeability in the blood brain barrier allows it to get through to the brain. So I also suffered from Glandular Fever (Mononucleosis, Epstein Barr virus) over 20 years ago which has also been linked to MS and this could have damaged the blood brain barrier.

I have also wondered about processed oils. They get processed way beyond what they would naturally be eating and appear in almost all the food you buy in the supermarkets. Manufacturers don't care. There is little demand for food without these oils and they allow for greater profits as food can last on the shelf longer. I have often spoken to people who don't have MS but other undiagnosed conditions that they treat by eating healthily. That means whole food and decent unprocessed oil.

I did hear about the two candidates of being an M.S cause, the EBV and the leaking gut. I suffered from stomach issues all of my life too, so if you also had stomach issues, most of M.S patients are reporting the same scenario, then it might be the cause.  It looks like something most of us M.S patients have in common.
Eating healthy does always work like charm in making the standard of life better for so many people, for me though I do feel my symptoms worsen instantly as I eat something fatty or full of processed oils. Instantly my eye would deviate, my sight would get blurry, I'll walk funnier even more, all of that happens instantly 5 or 10 minutes after eating the fatty meal.

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(November 14, 2018 at 12:59 pm)Minimalist Wrote: It's a possibility.

https://www.healthline.com/health/multip...ial-causes

Quote:Scientists believe that people with MS are born with a genetic susceptibility to react to certain (unknown) environmental agents. An autoimmune response is triggered when they encounter these agents.

At least it has not been ruled out.

And I've been suspicious about modern food processing techniques since I realized that when I was in grade school no one ever heard of a "peanut allergy."  This was the 50's and early 60's and every other kid brought a peanut butter and jelly sandwich to school for lunch and no one ever collapsed into a quivering puddle of piss because there was a peanut in the cafeteria.  It is not logical to assume that the peanuts changed.  It is also not logical to assume that humans changed.  Evolution does not work that fast.  So what chemicals were introduced into the peanut manufacturing and preserving business?  IOW, people who now get deathly ill from exposure to peanuts may not be reacting to the nut but rather to what the producers put into the nut.

I've had the same discussion with vets when they start talking about food allergies in dogs; to chicken, to grain, to whatever.  The chicken hasn't changed but now they shoot it up with all sorts of chemicals during processing. 

So I don't think you're crazy, Atlas.  The problem is that you then get into the genetic component wherein some people do not react at all and others get deathly ill. 

Aye, there's the rub, to quote the bard.

A fact I learned was that "the older generation was stronger and more healthy". My father grew up in an environment lacking the brands of food we have today, everything in his environment was very natural -from meat to milk-, all I can say about his health until the time he died was that of a 40 years old or even younger. He changed his diet when he got older and began to abuse processed oils and your-average supermarket goods , and 3 years or so were enough to cause him a stroke that ended his life.

I'll bet on the additives on the supermarket peanut butter flaming up when certain genes are present, these additives were never tested, and personally: I feel their effects instantly, the time I eat something full of fats -Saturated mostly-, or processed oils, I get severe worsening in my M.S symptoms.

Atlas, how's your Vitamin D consumption? The doctors here recommend that MS patients take extra D (at least 2000 IU a day).

The MS incidence in Manitoba is quite high, and it's suspected that it may be because we're at a high latitude (Winnipeg is nearly 50°N) and avoid going outside in really cold weather, so we're not getting adequate sunshine (which causes the body to make its own Vitamin D).

(November 18, 2018 at 3:30 am)Astreja Wrote: Atlas, how's your Vitamin D consumption?  The doctors here recommend that MS patients take extra D (at least 2000 IU a day).

The MS incidence in Manitoba is quite high, and it's suspected that it may be because we're at a high latitude (Winnipeg is nearly 50°N) and avoid going outside in really cold weather, so we're not getting adequate sunshine (which causes the body to make its own Vitamin D).

I take it daily in the form of capsules, I'm not sure about the amount taken though; but it's probably 2000 IU.
I don't get a lot naturally, I lost interest in eating eggs and my tolerance for the sun is not enough for me to take vitamin D.

I came to think that the lack of Vitamin D does help in developing MS, but it is not a main cause. Back in my childhood until late teenage years I used to stay in the sun for hours but I still got the disease. I'll put more betting on the additives in food & the environmental factors. There is a lot of oil refineries in Saudi Arabia, I can throw a blind bet and say the sun here is strengthening the protection of the body from M.S, unlike environments which lack enough Vitamin D naturally.