(November 11, 2018 at 9:42 am)Wololo Wrote:

(November 10, 2018 at 9:25 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: my teachers: "Hindus don't worship idols. They revere ideals."

Your teacher was a grade a bullshitter.  

That may be so. But that doesn't make his particular point bullshit.

Quote:Of course hindus worship idols, it's one of the primary effects of all religions the worship of idols.  And ideals are only ever held for as long as the leadership considered it expedient.

But aren't ideals valuable in and of themselves? What difference does it make if they are received in symbolic form? (I'm asking philosophically... not dogmatically.)

(November 11, 2018 at 10:04 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(November 11, 2018 at 9:42 am)Wololo Wrote: Your teacher was a grade a bullshitter.  

That may be so. But that doesn't make his particular point bullshit.

Quote:Of course hindus worship idols, it's one of the primary effects of all religions the worship of idols.  And ideals are only ever held for as long as the leadership considered it expedient.

But aren't ideals valuable in and of themselves? What difference does it make if they are received in symbolic form? (I'm asking philosophically... not dogmatically.)

Yes ideals are valuable by them selves. But when you anthropomorphize the ideal as part of being in an idol, the ideal has a greater chance of being lost or perverted in the worshiping. 

It's not just a hindu thing.

(November 11, 2018 at 11:20 am)wyzas Wrote:

(November 11, 2018 at 10:04 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: That may be so. But that doesn't make his particular point bullshit.


But aren't ideals valuable in and of themselves? What difference does it make if they are received in symbolic form? (I'm asking philosophically... not dogmatically.)

Yes ideals are valuable by them selves. But when you anthropomorphize the ideal as part of being in an idol, the ideal has a greater chance of being lost or perverted in the worshiping. 

It's not just a hindu thing.

Or, perhaps, the anthropomorphization can lead to a greater understanding and application of an ideal. That something can happen doesn't mean it will happen. And I'd like to see your evidence that ideals have a better chance of being lost or perverted as a consequence of anthropomorphization. That sounds like something you just pulled from your ass.

Yeah, I don't have evidence, at least not evidence that you might accept. I was just thinking about the brainwashing I got as a child and how I saw it continue into adulthood in my christian believing peers. 

"I've got know (hehe) idea who he really is or what he did, but look, I wearing my St. Christopher medal because I'm a christian." 

And the people with the jesus statues everywhere (love the dashboard ones). It's often enough for them to worship the statue to get the reward rather than actually learn the ideal's. 

I get the feeling the they think they are getting automatic transference of the ideal from the symbol/idol.

(November 11, 2018 at 12:29 pm)wyzas Wrote: "I've got know (hehe) idea who he really is or what he did, but look, I wearing my St. Christopher medal because I'm a christian." 

Well, that's not true in Hinduism. There's no one supreme hindu god. At least, the holy trinity, ones that are perhaps most famous, like Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu, etc, are barely mentioned in actual worshipping. Different Hindus worship, prioritize, and believe in different gods, and most of them do know what (s)he did, albeit in story form. 

(November 11, 2018 at 9:42 am)Wololo Wrote: Your teacher was a grade a bullshitter.  Of course hindus worship idols, it's one of the primary effects of all religions the worship of idols.  And ideals are only ever held for as long as the leadership considered it expedient.

I dunno if Wololwut will see this since he apparently has me on ignore, but I gotta say hindus definitely worship ideals more than idols, at least in the part of India I know about. Many festivals don't even have physical idols present to be worshipped, and no Hindu is like the other. Everyone gives importance to those gods and figures who they like, and often that is based on what ideals they showed in the stories we all hear about these gods and figures as kids. These ideals have been held for many hundreds of years... Hinduism is an old religion and it hasn't changed dramatically as far as I, and more importantly history textbooks, can tell.

(November 11, 2018 at 10:04 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(November 11, 2018 at 9:42 am)Wololo Wrote: Your teacher was a grade a bullshitter.  

That may be so. But that doesn't make his particular point bullshit.

Quote:Of course hindus worship idols, it's one of the primary effects of all religions the worship of idols.  And ideals are only ever held for as long as the leadership considered it expedient.

But aren't ideals valuable in and of themselves? What difference does it make if they are received in symbolic form? (I'm asking philosophically... not dogmatically.)

Ideals are valuable when they are held, and not thrown over for the first bit of skirt or piece of gold that comes into sight. That's what religion is incapable of doing.

Oh oh...

(November 12, 2018 at 6:10 pm)Wololo Wrote:

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(November 11, 2018 at 10:04 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: That may be so. But that doesn't make his particular point bullshit.


But aren't ideals valuable in and of themselves? What difference does it make if they are received in symbolic form? (I'm asking philosophically... not dogmatically.)

Ideals are valuable when they are held, and not thrown over for the first bit of skirt or piece of gold that comes into sight.  That's what religion is incapable of doing.

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