(December 10, 2018 at 6:19 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

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Not the point.

You are trying to create a double standard that is not there with AC/DC. The opposite is true. If a Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu want to display something religious in a public school Christians flip out. 

I don't see the point of treating any public school as an indoctrination center. If you want to live under a government that is run on religion where it's public schools mix the two, Saudi Arabia and Iran do that quite well. Schools are not Mosques, Synagogues, Churches or Buddhist or Hindu Temples. There are over 360,000 houses of worship in America of all sects and all religions outside public schools. There is no need to treat a public school as a holy place.

But, if Christians insist, then they cannot bitch, nor have the right to bitch if others do the same. I take the position that it is better for all involved to leave religion at the public school door, and have children and family do that on their own time.

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That is my point, as evidenced by the banter. I wasn't loading a question. Lets take religion out of it entirely, it'll be less galvanizing.

Why do non-smokers feel the need to dictate where smokers can and should smoke, or that business are not allowed to having smoking sections? If it doesn't affect you why should you care? It actually defeats the purpose because now smokers just stand by the front door and smoke making sure everyone gets their second-hand smoke. There is a plethora of other options for you to go to, simply choose to go somewhere else if you don't like it. Why do you have to push your beliefs into restricting other people's rights? I don't try and get strip clubs shut down, just because I don't like them, I simply choose not to go. They'll close when they're unprofitable enough.

Getting back to schools, singing frosty the snowman or playing silent night on bells in a school play is not religious indoctrination. I've never known any Chrstian to consider any school (save a convent or private religious school) anywhere close to a "Holy place". It's not about the place it's about people having the ability to express their faith, lack there of, hatred of religion, other religion, etc. I understand the desire of a secular society is a separation of church and state, and I agree, just for different reasons than most here probably. But isn't any time the rights of a minority are limited by a majority the definition of intolerant? If little sally wants to draw a circle of protection and cast her spells I'm not offended. Even if I were offended, I could just take little tommy and put him in another public/private school if I was that afraid.


Rev. Rye, I completely agree and added that to my list of reading. Seems spot on topic. I would add though that "But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force;" should be tempered by Justice and Law and not more subjective emotional reactions, otherwise the pendulum continues.

(December 10, 2018 at 9:03 pm)tackattack Wrote:

(December 10, 2018 at 6:19 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

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Not the point.

You are trying to create a double standard that is not there with AC/DC. The opposite is true. If a Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu want to display something religious in a public school Christians flip out. 

I don't see the point of treating any public school as an indoctrination center. If you want to live under a government that is run on religion where it's public schools mix the two, Saudi Arabia and Iran do that quite well. Schools are not Mosques, Synagogues, Churches or Buddhist or Hindu Temples. There are over 360,000 houses of worship in America of all sects and all religions outside public schools. There is no need to treat a public school as a holy place.

But, if Christians insist, then they cannot bitch, nor have the right to bitch if others do the same. I take the position that it is better for all involved to leave religion at the public school door, and have children and family do that on their own time.

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That is my point, as evidenced by the banter. I wasn't loading a question. Lets take religion out of it entirely, it'll be less galvanizing.

Why do non-smokers feel the need to dictate where smokers can and should smoke, or that business are not allowed to having smoking sections? If it doesn't affect you why should you care? It actually defeats the purpose because now smokers just stand by the front door and smoke making sure everyone gets their second-hand smoke. There is a plethora of other options for you to go to, simply choose to go somewhere else if you don't like it.

Seriously? I, the poisoned should have to go to wherever the poisoner does not poison the air? Terrible analogy.

To get more to the point of our opening post:

Religious expression in US schools by students IS allowed. In fact, it is guaranteed under our constitution. Allowing the public entity itself (the school) to spew religion is another story. For starters, which religion? Imagine the reaction of Christian parents if their children were exposed to Muslim thought. Or Hindu or Wicca or Jainism. THAT is why public institutions in the US are not allowed to weigh in on religion.

Individuals are allowed and guaranteed freedom of religion. That requires that the government must stay the hell out of it.

It's not a terrible analogy. U the "poisoner" should go where you want to go. If you don't want to go where the "poisoner is poisoning air" then you don't want to go there and should go somewhere else. Lots of people feel the same way you do though and just from I don't like something, or I don't want something and therefor you can't do it. It's exactly my point.


Pulling christmas carols out of a school play because the atheists and secularlists don't like it is just as stupid as #METOO getting "baby it's cold outside" pulled from one radio station.

Religion aside, because it's continuing to galvanize sides, What is the mechanism that jumps us from I don't like or want something , to you can't do it? I don't get it, I mean I did that when I was like 4 and I took my truck out of the sandbox and went home because I didn't want anyone to play with it. It just seems like society in lots of areas is all about the tantrum and less about the understanding.

(December 10, 2018 at 9:32 pm)tackattack Wrote: Religion aside, because it's continuing to galvanize sides, What is the mechanism that jumps us from I don't like or want something , to you can't do it?

You are either missing the point or are being deliberately dense. It's not that you shouldn't be able to things that I don't want to do. It's that you shouldn't be able to do things that harm me.

You want to give yourself lung cancer? Have at it - in your own fucking home where you don't give other people lung cancer as well! Is this really not obvious to you? You really think you should be able to spew poison in public places and anyone who doesn't want to be poisoned should be forced to go somewhere else?

You're missing the point on the public caroling thing too. You or any other private entity are already allowed public expression of religion. That is NOT the same thing as government expression of religion.

The government did not disallow anyone to play, "Baby, it's Cold Outside." The US Government doesn't have that power. One or more private entities made the decision that the lyrics of that song do not reflect the values of modern society. Nobody twisted their wrist.

(December 10, 2018 at 9:32 pm)tackattack Wrote: It's not a terrible analogy. U the "poisoner" should go where you want to go. If you don't want to go where the "poisoner is poisoning air" then you don't want to go there and should go somewhere else. Lots of people feel the same way you do though and just from I don't like something, or I don't want something and therefor you can't do it. It's exactly my point.


Pulling christmas carols out of a school play because the atheists and secularlists don't like it is just as stupid as #METOO getting "baby it's cold outside" pulled from one radio station.

Religion aside, because it's continuing to galvanize sides, What is the mechanism that jumps us from I don't like or want something , to you can't do it? I don't get it, I mean I did that when I was like 4 and I took my truck out of the sandbox and went home because I didn't want anyone to play with it. It just seems like society in lots of areas is all about the tantrum and less about the understanding.

Should they be having a school play about "christ"mas to begin with? I'm pretty sure they didn't have a Hanukkah play because the US is not 70% jewish. I know they didn't have a pagan play. 

I think you're just bent out of shape because the majority religions influence is dwindling and those use(used?) to being the majority are falsely feeling persecuted. Is this the "fear" you referred to earlier?

As Rev said, your religious freedom should stop where my nose (ears in this case) start.

(December 10, 2018 at 8:30 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 10, 2018 at 8:19 pm)Amarok Wrote: Yup they acted like a cult . Were did I say they were not atheists I said they were imposing stuff on atheism that has nothing to do with it. Once again there is nothing to tolerate .

They were singing.  That made them a cult?  You're version sounds more like a cult if it discriminates against other atheists for silly reasons. Heck, I would hang out with them if they were friendly.  I might not agree on their specific atheistic ideology, but that doesn't mean they're not nice people.

Yup they were singing and sermoning that's culty. I'm not discriminating just pointing out their doing shit that has nothing to do with atheism and imposing idea's on concept that aren't there and there nothing silly pointing that out . As people I'm sure their fine . And there  no such thing as atheist ideology only. Atheism can't be an ideology .

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Quote:It's not a terrible analogy. U the "poisoner" should go where you want to go. If you don't want to go where the "poisoner is poisoning air" then you don't want to go there and should go somewhere else. Lots of people feel the same way you do though and just from I don't like something, or I don't want something and therefor you can't do it. It's exactly my point.

It's called second hand smoke and no I should be able my food without gaging on smoke you can do that shit elsewhere 

Quote:Pulling christmas carols out of a school play because the atheists and secularlists don't like it is just as stupid as #METOO getting "baby it's cold outside" pulled from one radio station.

Nope school should neutral and non ideological 

Quote:Religion aside, because it's continuing to galvanize sides, What is the mechanism that jumps us from I don't like or want something , to you can't do it? I don't get it, I mean I did that when I was like 4 and I took my truck out of the sandbox and went home because I didn't want anyone to play with it. It just seems like society in lots of areas is all about the tantrum and less about the understanding

Your statement here is silly

(December 10, 2018 at 10:21 pm)Amarok Wrote:

(December 10, 2018 at 8:30 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: They were singing.  That made them a cult?  You're version sounds more like a cult if it discriminates against other atheists for silly reasons. Heck, I would hang out with them if they were friendly.  I might not agree on their specific atheistic ideology, but that doesn't mean they're not nice people.

Yup they were singing and sermoning that's culty. I'm not discriminating just pointing out their doing shit that has nothing to do with atheism and imposing idea's on concept that aren't there and there nothing silly pointing that out . As people I'm sure their fine . And there  no such thing as atheist ideology only. Atheism can't be an ideology .

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Quote:It's not a terrible analogy. U the "poisoner" should go where you want to go. If you don't want to go where the "poisoner is poisoning air" then you don't want to go there and should go somewhere else. Lots of people feel the same way you do though and just from I don't like something, or I don't want something and therefor you can't do it. It's exactly my point.

It's called second hand smoke and no I should be able my food without gaging on smoke you can do that shit elsewhere 

Quote:Pulling christmas carols out of a school play because the atheists and secularlists don't like it is just as stupid as #METOO getting "baby it's cold outside" pulled from one radio station.

Nope school should neutral and non ideological 

Quote:Religion aside, because it's continuing to galvanize sides, What is the mechanism that jumps us from I don't like or want something , to you can't do it? I don't get it, I mean I did that when I was like 4 and I took my truck out of the sandbox and went home because I didn't want anyone to play with it. It just seems like society in lots of areas is all about the tantrum and less about the understanding

Your statement here is silly

It's an opinion.  At least it was.  Those who adhere to it turned into religious belief.  That's why there is a group known as the "nones."  How many science journals do you have to read it in?

(December 10, 2018 at 10:27 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 10, 2018 at 10:21 pm)Amarok Wrote: Yup they were singing and sermoning that's culty. I'm not discriminating just pointing out their doing shit that has nothing to do with atheism and imposing idea's on concept that aren't there and there nothing silly pointing that out . As people I'm sure their fine . And there  no such thing as atheist ideology only. Atheism can't be an ideology .

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It's called second hand smoke and no I should be able my food without gaging on smoke you can do that shit elsewhere 



Nope school should neutral and non ideological 


Your statement here is silly

It's an opinion.  At least it was.  Those who adhere to it turned into religious belief.  That's why there is a group known as the "nones."  How many science journals do you have to read it in?

No it's not it a falsehood . You can't turn it into a religious belief . Again none's aren't a thing . Those journals are bullshit their reasoning is nonsense . You can't make ideology out of atheism nor religion you litterly can't do it .

@!OP q

Nope.

Nope nope nope.

Thus the paradox of tolerance.  



I'm absolutely -not- tolerant of this shit.

(December 10, 2018 at 10:32 pm)Amarok Wrote:

(December 10, 2018 at 10:27 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: It's an opinion.  At least it was.  Those who adhere to it turned into religious belief.  That's why there is a group known as the "nones."  How many science journals do you have to read it in?

No it's not it a falsehood . You can't turn it into a religious belief . Again none's aren't a thing . Those journals are bullshit their reasoning is nonsense . You can't make ideology out of atheism nor religion you litterly can't do it .

That has happened to all ideologies.  It turns into something else.  Just because you adhere to one aspect of it doesn't define the whole.  When there are certain legalities attached to it, like government benefits and exemptions, then that's the definition we go by.  If you have some independent definition for yourself, that's your choice and I'm certainly not knocking you for it.  Regardless, what you're experiencing is exactly what has happened to every other major religion/ideology in the world.  Welcome to the party.