(January 12, 2019 at 1:13 pm)Angelina Wrote:

(January 12, 2019 at 11:48 am)polymath257 Wrote: No, it is NOT a guess how stars come into existence. We can see the process happening right now in several nebula. The main thing that is required is gravity.

It is a guess. Observing something happen does not explain why or how it is happening and you should ask yourself why you are pretending it does.

(January 12, 2019 at 11:48 am)polymath257 Wrote: The most basic laws *cannot* have a cause. Why not? Because any cause would be from a deeper law, so the law in question wouldn't be basic.

To the contrary, there must always be a cause for certain things always happening under defined circumstances. That points straight to an intelligent designer of the universe without question.

(January 12, 2019 at 11:48 am)polymath257 Wrote: Yes, the universe from nothing is a *conjecture*. But it is a conjecture based on the known physical laws. Such is *allowed*, but not guaranteed.

On the other hand, in essentially every model, there is something physical whenever there is time.

My personal default is that the physical universe including all of spacetime simply exists. because time and causality are part of the universe, it is simply maningless to talk about a cause of the universe.

It is pseudoscientific bullshit posited only to make a profit from the gullible.

No, once again it is NOT a guess. The observations fit the theoretical predictions. We have fairly details observations of several stages of the process. The only reason you reject this is because of your pre-conceived religious ideas.

Again, there always has to be *something* that is uncaused. For you, it is some deity. For me, it is the universe itself and the laws of physics. No intelligent creator is required or even suggested by the observations we have.

No, the universe from nothing is NOT pseudoscience. it is based on known scientific law and has many testable predictions. At this point, those predictions have not yet been tested, but the proposal is still scientific.

(January 12, 2019 at 4:28 pm)polymath257 Wrote:

(January 12, 2019 at 1:13 pm)Angelina Wrote: It is a guess. Observing something happen does not explain why or how it is happening and you should ask yourself why you are pretending it does.


To the contrary, there must always be a cause for certain things always happening under defined circumstances. That points straight to an intelligent designer of the universe without question.


It is pseudoscientific bullshit posited only to make a profit from the gullible.

No, once again it is NOT a guess. The observations fit the theoretical predictions. We have fairly details observations of several stages of the process. The only reason you reject this is because of your pre-conceived religious ideas.

Again, there always has to be *something* that is uncaused. For you, it is some deity. For me, it is the universe itself and the laws of physics. No intelligent creator is required or even suggested by the observations we have.

No, the universe from nothing is NOT pseudoscience. it is based on known scientific law and has many testable predictions. At this point, those predictions have not yet been tested, but the proposal is still scientific.

- Bad guess.  Observations didn't fit and still don't.
- No observations prove otherwise
- Yep, pseudoscience.   No laws or testable predictions have been able to lead to such a conclusion.  Also, if the testable predictions haven't been tested, then how can they account for anything?  A proposal doesn't prove something, but rather details how you might test it.

(January 12, 2019 at 6:49 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(January 12, 2019 at 4:28 pm)polymath257 Wrote: No, once again it is NOT a guess. The observations fit the theoretical predictions. We have fairly details observations of several stages of the process. The only reason you reject this is because of your pre-conceived religious ideas.

Again, there always has to be *something* that is uncaused. For you, it is some deity. For me, it is the universe itself and the laws of physics. No intelligent creator is required or even suggested by the observations we have.

No, the universe from nothing is NOT pseudoscience. it is based on known scientific law and has many testable predictions. At this point, those predictions have not yet been tested, but the proposal is still scientific.

- Bad guess.  Observations didn't fit and still don't.
- No observations prove otherwise
- Yep, pseudoscience.   No laws or testable predictions have been able to lead to such a conclusion.  Also, if the testable predictions haven't been tested, then how can they account for anything?  A proposal doesn't prove something, but rather details how you might test it.

HE GOT US! Damn it , when he is right he is right.

Men magically pop out of dirt, kangaroos magically cross the ocean during the claimed flood.

Us atheist have to accept that we cannot compete with "poof" logic.

(January 12, 2019 at 7:47 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 12, 2019 at 6:49 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: - Bad guess.  Observations didn't fit and still don't.
- No observations prove otherwise
- Yep, pseudoscience.   No laws or testable predictions have been able to lead to such a conclusion.  Also, if the testable predictions haven't been tested, then how can they account for anything?  A proposal doesn't prove something, but rather details how you might test it.

HE GOT US! Damn it , when he is right he is right.

Men magically pop out of dirt, kangaroos magically cross the ocean during the claimed flood.

Us atheist have to accept that we cannot compete with "poof" logic.

Uh oh, now it's "kangaroos."  Do you tell them what they think too?

(January 12, 2019 at 8:36 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Uh oh, now it's "kangaroos."  Do you tell them what they think too?

 Well.. speaking as some one who shares that part of the world with said creatures (And a few even stranger)... How do you think Kangaroo's work/fit in with any 'World wide flood' idea?

Since... said flood is generally put forwards by Northern hemisphere living people and, y'know', kangaroos live all the way down South on Australia.

How did such animals come to be/get where they are, if the events as portrayed in certain bronze age literature were correct?

Not at work.

(January 12, 2019 at 4:28 pm)polymath257 Wrote: No, once again it is NOT a guess. The observations fit the theoretical predictions. We have fairly details observations of several stages of the process. The only reason you reject this is because of your pre-conceived religious ideas.

I do not have any pre-conceived religious ideas. I have a brain and a college education, and you are still pretending that explains why and how it is happening. It does NOT.

(January 12, 2019 at 4:28 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Again, there always has to be *something* that is uncaused. For you, it is some deity. For me, it is the universe itself and the laws of physics. No intelligent creator is required or even suggested by the observations we have.

It is not "some deity", it is an intelligent and self-aware force with enough knowledge to bring about LIFE ITSELF and an amazing and beautiful planet. "The Universe itself" does not mean anything. It is flat nothingness and has no capabilitles of accomplishing anything. It is nonsensical to think "nothing" can create all this. Ridiculous beyond belief.

(January 12, 2019 at 4:28 pm)polymath257 Wrote: No, the universe from nothing is NOT pseudoscience. it is based on known scientific law and has many testable predictions. At this point, those predictions have not yet been tested, but the proposal is still scientific.

It is based on nothing but some made up unproven guesses craftily thrown together in order to sell lots of books and make lots of money off the unknowing masses. It is despicable abuse of the field of scientiific inquiry.

(January 12, 2019 at 10:03 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote:

(January 12, 2019 at 8:36 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Uh oh, now it's "kangaroos."  Do you tell them what they think too?

 Well.. speaking as some one who shares that part of the world with said creatures (And a few even stranger)... How do you think Kangaroo's work/fit in with any 'World wide flood' idea?

Since... said flood is generally put forwards by Northern hemisphere living people and, y'know', kangaroos live all the way down South on Australia.

How did such animals come to be/get where they are, if the events as portrayed in certain bronze age literature were correct?

Not at work.

Duh.

(January 12, 2019 at 10:46 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(January 12, 2019 at 10:03 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote:  Well.. speaking as some one who shares that part of the world with said creatures (And a few even stranger)... How do you think Kangaroo's work/fit in with any 'World wide flood' idea?

Since... said flood is generally put forwards by Northern hemisphere living people and, y'know', kangaroos live all the way down South on Australia.

How did such animals come to be/get where they are, if the events as portrayed in certain bronze age literature were correct?

Not at work.

Duh.

 That's not an answer.

So, what's your take/position on the story of the flood?

Global?

Local?

A wonderful cautionary tale along side Aesop's fabels?

None of the above?

Not at work.

Angelina - Why does a star form ? It forms because the force of gravity exists and matter exists.

Then you might ask "Why does gravity exist ?"
I don't know why it exists, but I do know that we have evidence of it's existence.
I also know that if it didn't exist, more than likely, I wouldn't exist to be able to ask the question.

How does a star form ? The answer is gravity acting upon small particles of matter, gathering them together in one place.
As more matter gathers together, gravity increases, until all that matter gets really really dense and hot and then fun stuff happens and BOOM, it gives off light.

The universe exists. Why ? Because the forces of nature exist.
Why do they exist ? I don't know why, but if they didn't exist, I probably wouldn't exist.

The forces of nature are the base. They exist. We have evidence of their existence.

What we don't have evidence for, is a god, any god. Zip, nada, nothing.

(January 13, 2019 at 12:32 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote:

(January 12, 2019 at 10:46 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Duh.

 That's not an answer.

So, what's your take/position on the story of the flood?

Global?

Local?

A wonderful cautionary tale along side Aesop's fabels?

None of the above?

Not at work.

It's my answer.  What's your answer?