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Venezuela was eaten the day Palestine was eaten.
#21
RE: Venezuela was eaten the day Palestine was eaten.
(February 5, 2019 at 4:51 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(February 5, 2019 at 4:27 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: What?  I'm saying specifically to Atlas - the OP in this thread, with whom I've had many interactions - that he has a trademark on all of his threads boiling down to white west = bad, the source of all of history's ills, and that the problems in Muslim countries is solely due to the white west.  I wouldn't say that to "some black people" because that wouldn't make any sense.

The white supremacist talking point comparison was to demonstrate the absurdity of this oversimplification.

No, I don't blame white people. I blame "The Western Regimes" and I specify it always.
White people, black people, asian people, Arabs, Semites, all are HUMANS. all are my brothers and sisters in race.

But when I specify the western government; I'm referring to this:

[Image: Conqistadors-2.jpg?resize=696%2C392&ssl=1]

A picture speaks a thousand words; I refer to this one-of a kind military compulsive global invasion that is still going on by the same pale, immoral ghosts coming from the west.

What can I call them? they were famous with so many names: conquestadors-colonists-imperialists-oligarchs..etc

What should I use?

White and pale is used for reference. Not for racism.
Racism is their trait; not mine.

If you left it to me, I would call them Gog and Magog. But that's a different story.

It's entirely possible to recognize the atrocities that European/Western governments and movements have committed in the past (and are committing in the present) without labeling them as evil incarnate while also acting as if non-European regimes are somehow absent of that sin.  It's the self-righteous oversimplification that chafes me whenever you make one of these threads.  That's all I've ever been saying.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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#22
RE: Venezuela was eaten the day Palestine was eaten.
(February 5, 2019 at 4:23 pm)Yonadav Wrote:
(February 5, 2019 at 4:09 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I know, right?  According to Atlas, white folks have been the reason for any meaningful historic event anywhere, and all the other ethnicities have essentially just been sitting there doing nothing but getting pushed around.  Which sure sounds like a white supremacist talking point.

It is sort of a white supremacist talking point. And I freaking dare you to stand in front of some black people who are complaining about white people, and say to them what you are saying to Atlas.

Excuse us?

You have only been at this website what, for how long? A couple weeks/months at best? You are new here.

I have been here for almost a decade, and Atlass has been here around the same time.

Islam is not a race. Neither is Jew, or Christian or Hindu or Buddhist.

No human has a choice in their facial features or skin tones. But all of us can grow up to think about what our parents/society sell us, and keep or reject the claims they sell us.

THERE ARE Muslims in the world that ARE oppressed. There are Christians and Jews in the world that ARE oppressed. Just as there ARE gays and atheists in the world that ARE oppressed. 

Holding the positions I do now, if I were alive during Martin Luther King Jr, whom I would have supported if alive then, and knowing I support the likes of Malala, and knowing I support the life of Ann Frank, how dare you claim we cant or don't have empathy for theists. Theism IS NOT A SKIN COLOR. It is a position.

Atheists are very capable of having empathy for theists, but theism itself is not a race. Sammy Davis Jr was a BLACK JEW. Actor Richard Gere is white and a claimed Buddhist. Singer Cat Stevens now known as Yusuf Islam also was not born in Islam.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali WAS born in the middle east, WAS raised in Islam, does have dark skin, and SHE questioned her former religion, Islam like I did my former Christianity, and both of us, despite our geography, having never met each other in person, came to the same conclusion that what our parents/society sold us was not true.
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#23
RE: Venezuela was eaten the day Palestine was eaten.
(February 5, 2019 at 4:55 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: It's entirely possible to recognize the atrocities that European/Western governments and movements have committed in the past (and are committing in the present) without labeling them as evil incarnate while also acting as if non-European regimes are somehow absent of that sin.  It's the self-righteous oversimplification that chafes me whenever you make one of these threads.  That's all I've ever been saying.

Visit my personal profile, and see how many threads I wrote "against" Arab dictators alone and the severe amounts of brutality and torture they inflicted upon humanity.

But every time I want to criticize them, a western government is standing there in the shadows to support the Arab dictator either with weapons, or with political support. It became so redundant that the majority knows it now: the west never wanted peace in the Middle East or South America or anywhere outside its borders.

And step one is to divide an conquer. I never supported the donkey that allows the west to ride their back. But don't blame me if I criticized the wicked rider.
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#24
RE: Venezuela was eaten the day Palestine was eaten.
(February 5, 2019 at 5:12 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(February 5, 2019 at 4:55 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: It's entirely possible to recognize the atrocities that European/Western governments and movements have committed in the past (and are committing in the present) without labeling them as evil incarnate while also acting as if non-European regimes are somehow absent of that sin.  It's the self-righteous oversimplification that chafes me whenever you make one of these threads.  That's all I've ever been saying.

Visit my personal profile, and see how many threads I wrote "against" Arab dictators alone and the severe amounts of brutality and torture they inflicted upon humanity.

But every time I want to criticize them, a western government is standing there in the shadows to support the Arab dictator either with weapons, or with political support. It became so redundant that the majority knows it now: the west never wanted peace in the Middle East or South America or anywhere outside its borders.

And step one is to divide an conquer. I never supported the donkey that allows the west to ride their back. But don't blame me if I criticized the wicked rider.

DAMN IT ATLASS!

I WANT YOU to criticize them! What do you fucking think I do with Trump? How many times do I have to tell you I hate that fucker as much as you hate your rulers?

I hate Bibi too. I hate Putin, I hate Un, and I hate the Imams who control Iran.

I simply wish you would realize most of humanity is stuck under local rulers and if we want change, it cant be an us vs them sum game, but a collective effort worldwide of more pointing out that we are NOT a separate species.

I'd trust you to fly a jet I was a passenger on if that means anything. I still am under no obligation to find your logic here credible.

ALL 7 BILLION OF US are still the same species.
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#25
RE: Venezuela was eaten the day Palestine was eaten.
(February 5, 2019 at 5:06 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(February 5, 2019 at 4:23 pm)Yonadav Wrote: It is sort of a white supremacist talking point. And I freaking dare you to stand in front of some black people who are complaining about white people, and say to them what you are saying to Atlas.

Excuse us?

You have only been at this website what, for how long? A couple weeks/months at best? You are new here.

I have been here for almost a decade, and Atlass has been here around the same time.

Islam is not a race. Neither is Jew, or Christian or Hindu or Buddhist.

No human has a choice in their facial features or skin tones. But all of us can grow up to think about what our parents/society sell us, and keep or reject the claims they sell us.

THERE ARE Muslims in the world that ARE oppressed. There are Christians and Jews in the world that ARE oppressed. Just as there ARE gays and atheists in the world that ARE oppressed. 

Holding the positions I do now, if I were alive during Martin Luther King Jr, whom I would have supported if alive then, and knowing I support the likes of Malala, and knowing I support the life of Ann Frank, how dare you claim we cant or don't have empathy for theists. Theism IS NOT A SKIN COLOR. It is a position.

Atheists are very capable of having empathy for theists, but theism itself is not a race. Sammy Davis Jr was a BLACK JEW. Actor Richard Gere is white and a claimed Buddhist. Singer Cat Stevens now known as Yusuf Islam also was not born in Islam.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali WAS born in the middle east, WAS raised in Islam, does have dark skin, and SHE questioned her former religion, Islam like I did my former Christianity, and both of us, despite our geography, having never met each other in person, came to the same conclusion that what our parents/society sold us was not true.

Honestly he has a point; Brian, and I thank him for it.

Arabs were butchered in the dozens by the American forces in Iraq, and paid dearly after the invasion broke ISIS loose. The U.S was involved in some of the darkest foreign policies in the Middle East, and supported regimes ruled by psychopaths like bonesaw MBS.

Why do black people get his sympathy, but Arabs don't?
I'm a slave, just like all Arabs, and the U.S contributed in that by a great degree. Their tool in the region to enslave me and get the milk out of me is the likes of MBS. America supports criminals worldwide to milk the local populations, they want to do that to Venezuela now.

(February 5, 2019 at 5:22 pm)Brian37 Wrote: DAMN IT ATLASS!

I WANT YOU to criticize them! What do you fucking think I do with Trump? How many times do I have to tell you I hate that fucker as much as you hate your rulers?

I hate Bibi too. I hate Putin, I hate Un, and I hate the Imams who control Iran.

I simply wish you would realize most of humanity is stuck under local rulers and if we want change, it cant be an us vs them sum game, but a collective effort worldwide of more pointing out that we are NOT a separate species.

I'd trust you to fly a jet I was a passenger on if that means anything. I still am under no obligation to find your logic here credible.

ALL 7 BILLION OF US are still the same species.

Humans should collaborate in doing what is good, and that is the stopping of killing, sharing money between us, give the poor, focus on the natural disasters instead of war.

I'm totally with you in that, Brian.
But I don't believe that humanity wants to change. Excuse me man, but the world is a nuclear playground and it's a matter of time before the detonation
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#26
RE: Venezuela was eaten the day Palestine was eaten.
(February 5, 2019 at 5:24 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(February 5, 2019 at 5:06 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Excuse us?

You have only been at this website what, for how long? A couple weeks/months at best? You are new here.

I have been here for almost a decade, and Atlass has been here around the same time.

Islam is not a race. Neither is Jew, or Christian or Hindu or Buddhist.

No human has a choice in their facial features or skin tones. But all of us can grow up to think about what our parents/society sell us, and keep or reject the claims they sell us.

THERE ARE Muslims in the world that ARE oppressed. There are Christians and Jews in the world that ARE oppressed. Just as there ARE gays and atheists in the world that ARE oppressed. 

Holding the positions I do now, if I were alive during Martin Luther King Jr, whom I would have supported if alive then, and knowing I support the likes of Malala, and knowing I support the life of Ann Frank, how dare you claim we cant or don't have empathy for theists. Theism IS NOT A SKIN COLOR. It is a position.

Atheists are very capable of having empathy for theists, but theism itself is not a race. Sammy Davis Jr was a BLACK JEW. Actor Richard Gere is white and a claimed Buddhist. Singer Cat Stevens now known as Yusuf Islam also was not born in Islam.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali WAS born in the middle east, WAS raised in Islam, does have dark skin, and SHE questioned her former religion, Islam like I did my former Christianity, and both of us, despite our geography, having never met each other in person, came to the same conclusion that what our parents/society sold us was not true.

Honestly he has a point; Brian, and I thank him for it.

Arabs were butchered in the dozens by the American forces in Iraq, and paid dearly after the invasion broke ISIS loose. The U.S was involved in some of the darkest foreign policies in the Middle East, and supported regimes ruled by psychopaths like bonesaw MBS.

Why do black people get his sympathy, but Arabs don't?
I'm a slave, just like all Arabs, and the U.S contributed in that by a great degree. Their tool in the region to enslave me and get the milk out of me is the likes of MBS. America supports criminals worldwide to milk the local populations, they want to do that to Venezuela now.

You can't have it both ways, 

Nobody sane in the west want to trade places with you, I get that part.

But if you claim your government sucks,  who are you going to get to help you over throw it? Russia and China are as much closed states as your theocracy. You go to them you'd just be replacing one form of oppression with another.

Your government is criminal? But so is Putin. So is Bibi, and so is Trump. So what the probem is, isn't between you and  I, but global greed and lust for power.

I'm sorry Atlass, but the truth still remains between the east and the west, be it between America and Saudi Arabia, or Britain and Turkey or Australia and Iran, the west, as imperfect as it is, STILL has far more opportunity for those living under our governments to keep checks on power.

I will NEVER CLAIM the west has been perfect in our global interactions.

(February 5, 2019 at 5:24 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(February 5, 2019 at 5:06 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Excuse us?

You have only been at this website what, for how long? A couple weeks/months at best? You are new here.

I have been here for almost a decade, and Atlass has been here around the same time.

Islam is not a race. Neither is Jew, or Christian or Hindu or Buddhist.

No human has a choice in their facial features or skin tones. But all of us can grow up to think about what our parents/society sell us, and keep or reject the claims they sell us.

THERE ARE Muslims in the world that ARE oppressed. There are Christians and Jews in the world that ARE oppressed. Just as there ARE gays and atheists in the world that ARE oppressed. 

Holding the positions I do now, if I were alive during Martin Luther King Jr, whom I would have supported if alive then, and knowing I support the likes of Malala, and knowing I support the life of Ann Frank, how dare you claim we cant or don't have empathy for theists. Theism IS NOT A SKIN COLOR. It is a position.

Atheists are very capable of having empathy for theists, but theism itself is not a race. Sammy Davis Jr was a BLACK JEW. Actor Richard Gere is white and a claimed Buddhist. Singer Cat Stevens now known as Yusuf Islam also was not born in Islam.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali WAS born in the middle east, WAS raised in Islam, does have dark skin, and SHE questioned her former religion, Islam like I did my former Christianity, and both of us, despite our geography, having never met each other in person, came to the same conclusion that what our parents/society sold us was not true.

Honestly he has a point; Brian, and I thank him for it.

Arabs were butchered in the dozens by the American forces in Iraq, and paid dearly after the invasion broke ISIS loose. The U.S was involved in some of the darkest foreign policies in the Middle East, and supported regimes ruled by psychopaths like bonesaw MBS.

Why do black people get his sympathy, but Arabs don't?
I'm a slave, just like all Arabs, and the U.S contributed in that by a great degree. Their tool in the region to enslave me and get the milk out of me is the likes of MBS. America supports criminals worldwide to milk the local populations, they want to do that to Venezuela now.

(February 5, 2019 at 5:22 pm)Brian37 Wrote: DAMN IT ATLASS!

I WANT YOU to criticize them! What do you fucking think I do with Trump? How many times do I have to tell you I hate that fucker as much as you hate your rulers?

I hate Bibi too. I hate Putin, I hate Un, and I hate the Imams who control Iran.

I simply wish you would realize most of humanity is stuck under local rulers and if we want change, it cant be an us vs them sum game, but a collective effort worldwide of more pointing out that we are NOT a separate species.

I'd trust you to fly a jet I was a passenger on if that means anything. I still am under no obligation to find your logic here credible.

ALL 7 BILLION OF US are still the same species.

Humans should collaborate in doing what is good, and that is the stopping of killing, sharing money between us, give the poor, focus on the natural disasters instead of war.

I'm totally with you in that, Brian.
But I don't believe that humanity wants to change. Excuse me man, but the world is a nuclear playground and it's a matter of time before the detonation

I wouldn't say humanity doesn't want to change, as much as I would say humans are slow to change. Humans, no matter geography or point in history, have far too much of a tendency to defend that which is local. But the good thing is our species is ALSO, despite that, capable of great introspection and compassion. It is still up to us what we choose as a species.
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#27
RE: Venezuela was eaten the day Palestine was eaten.
(February 5, 2019 at 5:12 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: the west never wanted peace in the Middle East or South America or anywhere outside its borders.

You're right, of course. 

American foreign policy has been evil for many years. 

The recent cutting off of aid to the Palestinians, and the open on-going theft of Venezuelan resources, are just the latest examples. But constant propaganda in the US makes most Americans unaware of the extent of the horror. 

Persuading people to face that is very difficult.
Reply
#28
RE: Venezuela was eaten the day Palestine was eaten.
(February 5, 2019 at 5:24 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(February 5, 2019 at 5:06 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Excuse us?

You have only been at this website what, for how long? A couple weeks/months at best? You are new here.

I have been here for almost a decade, and Atlass has been here around the same time.

Islam is not a race. Neither is Jew, or Christian or Hindu or Buddhist.

No human has a choice in their facial features or skin tones. But all of us can grow up to think about what our parents/society sell us, and keep or reject the claims they sell us.

THERE ARE Muslims in the world that ARE oppressed. There are Christians and Jews in the world that ARE oppressed. Just as there ARE gays and atheists in the world that ARE oppressed. 

Holding the positions I do now, if I were alive during Martin Luther King Jr, whom I would have supported if alive then, and knowing I support the likes of Malala, and knowing I support the life of Ann Frank, how dare you claim we cant or don't have empathy for theists. Theism IS NOT A SKIN COLOR. It is a position.

Atheists are very capable of having empathy for theists, but theism itself is not a race. Sammy Davis Jr was a BLACK JEW. Actor Richard Gere is white and a claimed Buddhist. Singer Cat Stevens now known as Yusuf Islam also was not born in Islam.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali WAS born in the middle east, WAS raised in Islam, does have dark skin, and SHE questioned her former religion, Islam like I did my former Christianity, and both of us, despite our geography, having never met each other in person, came to the same conclusion that what our parents/society sold us was not true.

Honestly he has a point; Brian, and I thank him for it.

Arabs were butchered in the dozens by the American forces in Iraq, and paid dearly after the invasion broke ISIS loose. The U.S was involved in some of the darkest foreign policies in the Middle East, and supported regimes ruled by psychopaths like bonesaw MBS.

Why do black people get his sympathy, but Arabs don't?
I'm a slave, just like all Arabs, and the U.S contributed in that by a great degree. Their tool in the region to enslave me and get the milk out of me is the likes of MBS. America supports criminals worldwide to milk the local populations, they want to do that to Venezuela now.

(February 5, 2019 at 5:22 pm)Brian37 Wrote: DAMN IT ATLASS!

I WANT YOU to criticize them! What do you fucking think I do with Trump? How many times do I have to tell you I hate that fucker as much as you hate your rulers?

I hate Bibi too. I hate Putin, I hate Un, and I hate the Imams who control Iran.

I simply wish you would realize most of humanity is stuck under local rulers and if we want change, it cant be an us vs them sum game, but a collective effort worldwide of more pointing out that we are NOT a separate species.

I'd trust you to fly a jet I was a passenger on if that means anything. I still am under no obligation to find your logic here credible.

ALL 7 BILLION OF US are still the same species.

Humans should collaborate in doing what is good, and that is the stopping of killing, sharing money between us, give the poor, focus on the natural disasters instead of war.

I'm totally with you in that, Brian.
But I don't believe that humanity wants to change. Excuse me man, but the world is a nuclear playground and it's a matter of time before the detonation

I can completely understand your exasperation with US policies in the ME. But I will say one thing in defense of the US. Our intention was not evil. Let's put it into perspective by looking at another case the isn't in the ME and the US isn't behind.

Let's look at Sudan. The Chinese have a growing appetite for oil. A lot of oil was located in Sudan. So the Chinese wanted to buy the oil. And this is where the trouble starts in trying to do business with emerging nations. It's not entirely clear whom you have to strike a deal with. So these guys in Khartoum say that they are the people that the Chinese have to cut a deal with. The Chinese see no reason not to believe them, since the government in Khartoum is the internationally recognized government of Sudan. But the government in Khartoum has not had extensive dealings with the tribes living in the south of Sudan, which is where the oil is. The southern tribes have never been a problem before this, because there had never been any strong reason to challenge the authority of the government in Khartoum. But now there is the issue of who owns this oil, and who is going to benefit the most from selling it to the Chinese. Believing that they had a legitimate deal with the government in Khartoum, the Chinese had invested heavily in the southern oil fields and in pipelines. But the people in the south are having the oil sucked out from under their feet, and the people in Khartoum are getting all of the money for it. So now the Chinese are stuck in the middle of a Sudanese civil war where Chinese money is being used to exterminate the tribes in the south. They had never intended for something like that to happen. They had been dealing in good faith, and had no idea that they were going to start a Sudanese civil war. And they would probably be happy to strike a deal that is good for the Khartoum government and the southern tribes. But the Khartoum government doesn't want to share, and the Chinese are too heavily invested.

Something like that is the way it frequently goes with emerging nations that have a valuable resource. You try to strike a deal with people who convince you that they are in control. You get heavily invested. Some other faction says that they aren't being represented in the deal that was struck, and starts challenging the authority of the people with whom the deal was struck. It turns ugly, and you're too heavily invested to back out. You end up backing one side or the other to protect your investment. Or you lose everything, and a rival superpower steps in and makes a deal for the resource that you invested so heavily into acquiring.
We do not inherit the world from our parents. We borrow it from our children.
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#29
RE: Venezuela was eaten the day Palestine was eaten.
I see a spanish flag all over central and south america.  Them boys aint white.  In any case, what our ridiculous admin is looking to do in venezuela is tank billions in russian and chinese interest.  It's a potential proxy war of the economic variety. Not an oil extraction scheme. The national security mustache is just a mouth breathing idiot, is all.
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#30
RE: Venezuela was eaten the day Palestine was eaten.
Brian37 Wrote:But if you claim your government sucks, who are you going to get to help you over throw it?

Atlas has really bad MS go easy on him. He can struggle to find the right medication for his condition in Saudi. Do you expect a heavily disabled person, who often struggles to leave his house, to start rioting in the street or something?

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