And the US carried on where we left off. Two wrongs and all that. And yeah, I hate it when they fight back too.

'Those who do not comply with it's demands, will be terminated.'

Iraq was flouting UN resolutions for 15 years before anyone had the balls to say enough is enough. Thank you America for doing the right thing.

(October 5, 2011 at 1:26 pm)Shell B Wrote: By the way, why do people forget that the British occupied and fucked with Iraq for a long goddamn time before the U.S. got there? Iraq was only "free" for a few years when Saddam screwed the pooch? Why not ask when the Brits are coming in for the rest?

Because, we are sneaky bastards perhaps?

Quote: As it is, we haven't got much oil from anyone, have we?

Surely you didn't, did you. I wonder who profits from the oil in Iraq. Not the Iraqis. Not us Turks. And certainly not the Iranians, nor any other terrorist groups that used to go around sniping your soldiers during the day.
So who profits? Of course, you do. Your companies do.

Quote: It certainly does not seem like it, as it takes 40 dollars to fill up an itty bitty car.

Well, that's certainly not due to the lack of oil.

Quote:You also seem to think that your problems are the fault of America.

They weren't our problems to begin with until you showed up with those fighter jets of yours. And why, exactly? Iraq wasn't your problem, neither was Afghanistan. So what exactly do you think your problems are?

Quote:but if the lot of you fuckers could stop the terrorist cells that live in and amongst you, we wouldn't have much of an excuse to go over there, would we?

Who are those? There are no terrorists in Turkey but the communist seperatists, the PKK, whose numbers have risen from 3000 to 7000 after the invasion of Iraq.
And the other terrorists...I think you forget the fact that it was your government, who have helped many terrorists to fame, when they were still fighting your enemies, the communists.
And now you see them as a valid excuse to invade other countries?

Quote:You seem to forget that the violence that is coddled over there has leaked out into the rest of the world more than once.

And you think that it is America's duty to stop them. Besides 9/11, who was already a very suspicious occasion, the only instances of Americans dying from terrorist attacks, happened in the countries they illegally invaded.

Quote: When douchebags from the Middle East bomb major cities in other countries,

And I'm supposed to care? Other douchebags from the middle east have been bombing our cities for decades now, but we can't even cross the border into Iraq to bomb them the way you bombed Baghdat, or the way Israel bombed Gaza. What I demand, is fairness. I care not what Israel does in a fairly insignificant part of middle east, but after you've invaded two countries already, I think it's evident that the USA does not care about legality, nor fairness. And this is not the first case of America, deliberately destabilizing the middle east.
Iran, before the Islamic regime took over, was ruled by the Shah, who in return, rose to power thanks to a coup, that was staged by America.

Quote:Have you noticed that N. Korea has been largely left alone for quite some time now?

So did Iraq. And Iraq was invaded because of the allegations of weapons of mass destruction, which were never found.
So, if you look for weapons of mass destruction, maybe you should invade north korea aswell. Haven't got the guts? Maybe your courage only extends to some arabs who can't even find a reverse on a soviet tank.

Quote:Because we are kind enough to offer up our men to maintain the DMZ and help protect South Korea, even when it means they get chopped up by axe wielding nutcases.

Oh, thank you for your kindness, oh great USA. The soviet union is no more. N. Korea has no more relations with China. So what exactly is your business there?

Quote:Let's not forget that we pay the salaries of Iraqi soldiers working in Iraq now, or at least we did, not sure if we're still doing that. To be honest, that pisses me off, but we do it.

Well, I think that you should pay for all the infastructural damage that resulted from the war, direct or indirect, and pay all of the families that lost a relative in the war, a considerable salary, just because the mayhem was your fault in the first place. That would truly be fair towards those people whom you claim to have liberated.

Quote:By the way, why do people forget that the British occupied and fucked with Iraq for a long goddamn time before the U.S. got there? Iraq was only "free" for a few years when Saddam screwed the pooch? Why not ask when the Brits are coming in for the rest?

The brits were at least, quite honest about their intentions.
When they conquered the region, they at least made it known, that this region was their mandate, part of their territory, whom they held the rights of sovereignity. However, the USA invades under the guise of liberating the populace, but exploits it to the max. The inhabitants of the US perhaps know nothing of this, or maybe they just don't want to know, but it's certainly an established fact that people do not dislike America for no reason.

The true threat that the US presence poses to the stability in the middle east is that it uses legal and barely noticable means to exploit the region.
Namely, corporate power. They are not affiliated with the government, however, they maintain lobbies, and support politicians with their money, as such, those direct their policies in accordance with them.
As you see, America is still not out of Afghanistan, even though they have found Osama, in Pakistan, far from where he was rumored to be.

N. Korea has no more relations with China.

Yes. It. Does.

(October 5, 2011 at 3:13 pm)5thHorseman Wrote: N. Korea has no more relations with China.

Yes. It. Does.

And it still receives the donations of food and heavy oil from either one of the countries?
Besides, China will never betray America in favor of some rogue country, as America profits from the slave labor that China provides, and China profits from the investments that come to the country.
If, for some reason, America decides to invade North Korea, no one will come to it's aid.

(October 5, 2011 at 3:10 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Surely you didn't, did you. I wonder who profits from the oil in Iraq. Not the Iraqis. Not us Turks. And certainly not the Iranians, nor any other terrorist groups that used to go around sniping your soldiers during the day.

Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean we do.

Quote:So who profits? Of course, you do. Your companies do.

Tell that to the jobless and homeless here.

Quote:
Well, that's certainly not due to the lack of oil.

Then why is it? You can't just say something because you want it to be true and expect me to just say, oh, yeah.

Quote:They weren't our problems to begin with until you showed up with those fighter jets of yours. And why, exactly? Iraq wasn't your problem, neither was Afghanistan. So what exactly do you think your problems are?

The pricks with bombs who sneak out of Middle Eastern countries. Don't forget, they're killing people there too.

Quote:Who are those? There are no terrorists in Turkey but the communist seperatists, the PKK, whose numbers have risen from 3000 to 7000 after the invasion of Iraq.

You're bitching about us being in the Middle East, so clearly this isn't just about Turkey or you wouldn't be crying.

Quote:And the other terrorists...I think you forget the fact that it was your government, who have helped many terrorists to fame, when they were still fighting your enemies, the communists.

The Cold War is over, dude.

Quote:And now you see them as a valid excuse to invade other countries?

Invading and occupying are different. We don't plan on staying there. So, yes, I see it as an excuse to invade. Borders mean nothing when there are crimes against humanity.

Quote:And you think that it is America's duty to stop them. Besides 9/11, who was already a very suspicious occasion, the only instances of Americans dying from terrorist attacks, happened in the countries they illegally invaded.

Bullshit. And, yes, if you can't stop them, then someone has to. FYI, the coalition isn't America. Australia? Heard of them? The UK? Ring a bell?

Quote:
And I'm supposed to care?

If you expect me to care, then yes. Otherwise, quit crying and be a part of the solution.

Quote:Other douchebags from the middle east have been bombing our cities for decades now, but we can't even cross the border into Iraq to bomb them the way you bombed Baghdat, or the way Israel bombed Gaza.

I'm sure they have. Do something about it. Effect change there.

Quote:What I demand, is fairness.

You are not in a position to make demands. Fairness is ideal. However, who are you to decide what is fair? I think it is unfair that civilians have to be afraid of their leaders in many Middle Eastern countries. I think it is unfair that they have to live in the midst of holy wars. Can I demand change? No.

Quote:I care not what Israel does in a fairly insignificant part of middle east,

Fuck you. No place is insignificant. You should damn well care what they are doing. However, I won't demand that you do because I'm not deluded.

Quote:but after you've invaded two countries already, I think it's evident that the USA does not care about legality, nor fairness. And this is not the first case of America, deliberately destabilizing the middle east.

Have you ever heard of the UN? Saying "America" just goes to show that your beliefs are the product of propaganda.

Quote:Iran, before the Islamic regime took over, was ruled by the Shah, who in return, rose to power thanks to a coup, that was staged by America.

Uh-huh.

Quote:So did Iraq. And Iraq was invaded because of the allegations of weapons of mass destruction, which were never found.

I never cared about weapons of mass destruction by the popular definition. A dictator who is allowing, nay, orchestrating, mass murder is enough of a weapon for me.

Quote:So, if you look for weapons of mass destruction, maybe you should invade north korea aswell. Haven't got the guts? Maybe your courage only extends to some arabs who can't even find a reverse on a soviet tank.

You want me to invade N. Korea? No thanks. You're sitting in front of a computer screen pissing and moaning and you're talking about courage? Go to a protest or something.

Quote:Oh, thank you for your kindness, oh great USA. The soviet union is no more. N. Korea has no more relations with China. So what exactly is your business there?

To protect S. Korea. As for relations with China, don't be daft.

Quote:Well, I think that you should pay for all the infastructural damage that resulted from the war, direct or indirect, and pay all of the families that lost a relative in the war, a considerable salary, just because the mayhem was your fault in the first place. That would truly be fair towards those people whom you claim to have liberated.

Tough titty.

Quote:The brits were at least, quite honest about their intentions.
When they conquered the region, they at least made it known, that this region was their mandate, part of their territory, whom they held the rights of sovereignity. However, the USA invades under the guise of liberating the populace, but exploits it to the max. The inhabitants of the US perhaps know nothing of this, or maybe they just don't want to know, but it's certainly an established fact that people do not dislike America for no reason.

Yeah, the reason is propaganda. I don't claim my country has been perfect, but the ridiculous blame and blatantly ignoring the other countries that fight beside us gets old. Do you have a Red Cross? Do you fund refuge camps in other countries?

Quote:As you see, America is still not out of Afghanistan, even though they have found Osama, in Pakistan, far from where he was rumored to be.

Yeah, that was nice. Just another country condoning crimes against humanity.

It is a mentality like his that develops into terrorism... Blaming the citizens for something they had little control over...

I am not saying you will become a terrorist, but that is what extremist islamists are like... They take it out on innocent people.

It does seem like you are venting hatred for a government towards its people.

(October 5, 2011 at 2:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: And the US carried on where we left off. Two wrongs and all that. And yeah, I hate it when they fight back too.

I never said I hate it when "they" fight back, Frodo. I do, however, hate it that people ignore the poor folk who genuinely are happy that we went there. You know, the people whose family members were murdered by the terrorists they called politicians and soldiers? The U.S. didn't carry on where you left off. They picked up the mess you left behind. England abandoned Iraq to a fucking dictator, knowing full well that Iraq had no way to govern itself properly. How could they have? They have been occupied or terrorized since their fall, back when they were the practical center of the educated world.

Quote:Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean we do.

Well, I do get it, in fact. It's just that you don't.

Quote:Tell that to the jobless and homeless here.

Well, it's almost impossible for you to decrease unemployment, as you have no more uses for labor, with the rising development in technology, and acquisitions and mergings of small businesses and companies.
Larger companies, however, have earned themselves juicy deals on Iraqi oil, for the most part, as it's now sold at half of it's worth when Saddam was still alive(although the west tried to make him sell it for cheap by not buying from him. This didn't deter him from giving the west the middle finger though.)

Quote:Then why is it? You can't just say something because you want it to be true and expect me to just say, oh, yeah.

This is generally in accordance with the value of your money. If your money is losing in value, the prices will go up. If it were otherwise, the companies wouldn't be making profits from it. Capish?
Besides, your oil isn't really that expensive when it's compared with the oil prices here, and we live in close proximity to both Iraq and Azerbaijan, both, who possess considerable oil reserves.

Quote:The pricks with bombs who sneak out of Middle Eastern countries. Don't forget, they're killing people there too.

They didn't, until you showed up. Iraq was quite stable, and islamic extremism was unheard of. Besides, our main enemy, the PKK, was on a steady decline, facing pressure from two sides, when the autonomous northern Iraqi administration was not yet established.
And Afghanistan was not known for the production of the largest quantities of Opium in the world, although the Taliban still had a large influence on the area, as it does now, and democracy, was still nonexistent, as it is now.

Quote:You're bitching about us being in the Middle East, so clearly this isn't just about Turkey or you wouldn't be crying.

I'm just pointing out the consequences of your small trip to Iraq.
And how it affected a country you see as an ally. But obviously, you don't care, but expect the rest of the world to care, when some people drive some jumbo jets into your twin towers.

Quote:The Cold War is over, dude.

It is, but your old agents are still very active in those areas.

Quote:Invading and occupying are different. We don't plan on staying there. So, yes, I see it as an excuse to invade. Borders mean nothing when there are crimes against humanity.

Which ones? Ah, you mean the gassing of kurds, I think, the same kurds that were provoked by the CIA into turning Saddam's wrath on themselves, and at the end, flooded our own borders with fucking refugees. Still, those crimes were committed long before the second invasion of Iraq, so I don't know what made you wait so long to take Saddam down.

Or do you mean the 9/11 attacks? If so, why invade Iraq, which had nothing to do with it?
Either way, your excuses are only valid, considering that you live by motto, "might makes right". And no one can really open up their mouth and say anything against you.

Quote:Bullshit. And, yes, if you can't stop them, then someone has to. FYI, the coalition isn't America. Australia? Heard of them? The UK? Ring a bell?

Stop who? I wonder, how many people died in western countries due to an attack by the Taliban?
Or the iraqi insurgency(who were founded after the invasion of Iraq).
Because those are the enemies that you've been fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Aren't they?
Besides, it doesn't really matter if the UK and Australia is going to war with you. I'm sure the British people aren't really as enthusiastic about the war in Afghanistan as you are, but they've been forced by their governments, who heed America's call like a good lapdog, just as the Australians have been forced to fight in Gallipoli by the British empire, for a war that wasn't theirs to begin with, back in WWI.

Quote:I never cared about weapons of mass destruction by the popular definition. A dictator who is allowing, nay, orchestrating, mass murder is enough of a weapon for me.

As I said, the mass murders occured back in the 80ies.
The second Iraq war came to pass after 2000. Why wait so long to depose of dictators, America?
And well, why don't you invade Sudan aswell? Or Syria, just right now, as there are many reports about "mass murders" occuring there aswell.
But I guess that even the American public ain't buying this shit of "bringing peace and democracy" to the world, and Yarrak Obama doesn't want bad publicity for his next campaign, so he lets the rest of the NATO forces do his work for him.

Quote: You want me to invade N. Korea? No thanks. You're sitting in front of a computer screen pissing and moaning and you're talking about courage? Go to a protest or something.

I do go to protests, but not for the arabs, nor the persian. I've attended protests for Eastern Turkestan in front of Chinese embassies.
And as I said, if the USA is really so keen about bringing peace, and deposing dictators, they should start by bringing democracy to N. Korea.
The people there live in even worse conditions than Iraq when it was still ruled by Saddam Hussein.

Quote:To protect S. Korea. As for relations with China, don't be daft.

Can't South Korea defend his own? Besides, China is quite dependent on western investments for it's economic survival. In a possible war with N. Korea, it won't even lift a finger for them.

Quote:Tough titty.

That'd be the least of what I'd expect if I were an Iraqi citizen.

Quote:Yeah, the reason is propaganda. I don't claim my country has been perfect, but the ridiculous blame and blatantly ignoring the other countries that fight beside us gets old. Do you have a Red Cross? Do you fund refuge camps in other countries?

They don't fight besides you, they fight FOR you.
You drag them down into your shit with you, they don't say, hey America, let's invade Iraq/Afghanistan together!
We have a red crescent. We have sent relief to Pakistan and Haiti during it's times of need, as much as we could.
And yes, we fund refuge camps in our country, like we have done in the Gulf War, and now that the shit's happening in Syria. I'm fairly certain that our arab-loving government will give them all citizenship, as we don't have enough fellahin within our borders.
And those are fucking sunnis, not the alawi arabs in Hatay.

Quote:Yeah, that was nice. Just another country condoning crimes against humanity.

I see you're avoiding my point here. You've invaded a country with the reason of finding a single man, and it turns out that he isn't even there!
Of course, I don't think that he stood there for even a second after he heard that you were invading Afghanistan, and your guys were probably too stupid to realize that he'd flee to somewhere else! Or maybe they knew it, but just witheld it from the public, to kill him at the right time to boost public opinion on the war.

Quote:It is a mentality like his that develops into terrorism... Blaming the citizens for something they had little control over...

I am not saying you will become a terrorist, but that is what extremist islamists are like... They take it out on innocent people.

It does seem like you are venting hatred for a government towards its people.

Where exactly am I venting my supposed "hatred" for a government to the people? If he has supposedly no control over whatever that is happening out there, why is he defending them?
IF he defends them, it means that he agrees with the wars, and sides with his government, in which case I can refer to him when I speak about the actions of the US government.
It's really no surprise that you compare me to "islamist extremists", which show how well you've been brainwashed about the current public enemy.
I'm sure if it were like 30 years back, you'd probably say, hey, this man is talking like a communist(even though I'm staunchly anti-communist), it is a mentality like this that develops in communism, and whatever you said in the rest of your post, as communism was the public enemy of that time.
It's evident that western authorities constantly try to create a grand enemy image in the eyes of the people to gather more support for their actions. Once, it was the Germans, then, the Reds, now, "Terrorists".
And I'm supposed to be one, because I think that the world is under an ongoing US yoke?

Quote:I never said I hate it when "they" fight back, Frodo. I do, however, hate it that people ignore the poor folk who genuinely are happy that we went there. You know, the people whose family members were murdered by the terrorists they called politicians and soldiers? The U.S. didn't carry on where you left off. They picked up the mess you left behind. England abandoned Iraq to a fucking dictator, knowing full well that Iraq had no way to govern itself properly. How could they have? They have been occupied or terrorized since their fall, back when they were the practical center of the educated world.

England "entrusted" Iraq to a man that whom they thought they could control. However, Saddam had the balls to tell them to fuck off. America was supporting Saddam when they were fighting Iran, yet went batshit once they started invading Kuwait, but still didn't deposed him. Because they thought that he'd come around to play the game their way. He didn't, however, and during his days, Iraq was stable. Iraq was a place you could go to without being worried about car bombs, or mountain men, playing robin hood.