(April 12, 2019 at 4:00 pm)Shell B Wrote: Benny, he identified as male, but had a MTF sex change, according to him. Therefore, "dude" is dude, and that's irrelevant. Whether male or female, he is sexist as a motherfucker.

You have been corrected about this so many times that I think that you must be intentionally lying. Rumor, innuendo, and reputation destruction are the primary means by which women are aggressive. That's one of the 'misogynists' things that I sometimes say, but only because research has found it to be true. So you are posting lies untrue information about me, which is a fairly standard form of female aggression.

I've told you in the past that I self identify as a woman who lives as a man. There is a long story about how that came to be. I've told it to you before, and I don't feel that I have to keep retelling my life story just to correct you every time you tell lies about my life story.

And I see that Mathilda is still spinning her lies about me being transphobic. I'm not transphobic. I have been an advocate for trans rights for my entire life. Mathilda has been calling me transphobic ever since I stated that it is not ethical for a transwoman to have sexual relations with a man who would not have been willing to have sexual relations with her if he had known that she was trans.

There is a bit of confusion among non-trans people about a transsexual's constant struggle between living in terms of post modern truth and reality. Transsexuals for whom it is an every day experience are less confused by it, and the issues is really more of one about appropriate places to draw lines between the two where there might be conflict between the transsexual's rights and those of others. Saying that a male to female transsexual 'is' a woman just like any other woman is 'post modern'. And in polite society, this post modern truth is sort of necessary.

But post modern truth is about respecting the personal truths of others. So if we expect others to respect our post modern truth, then we have to be willing to respect the personal truths of others. The difference between a liberal pov and a conservative pov is the difference between respecting the personal truth of others or telling others what truth they must accept. Many self described liberals get tripped up on this. They try to tell others what  personal truths they have to accept-- which makes their pov a conservative. Saying that homosexuality is normal and transwomen are just normal women does not make you liberal. It might make you liberal, if you respect differing povs. But it just makes you another brand of conservative if you don't respect other povs. If you don't respect other povs, then you are a person who has strong feelings about what the values of all members of society should be, and that is conservative. Anyone with a differing pov isn't 'living in the right way'.

So the transwoman is living her personal truth as a woman. She expects her personal truth to be respected by others. In a polite society, there is nothing wrong with this expectation. But she isn't delusional. She knows that she doesn't have any actual female reproductive organs.  She knows that a chomosome test would say that she is male. She knows that future anthropologists who study her bones will identify them as the bones of a man. She knows the difference between her surgically constructed vagina and a natural vagina. She has a reasonable expectation that her personal truth that she is a woman just like any other woman should be respected.

But if she won't respect the personal truth of others, then she is a hypocrite.  She knows that the personal truth of many men is that transwomen are not really women, and that they would never willingly have sexual relations with a transwoman. A transwoman is a woman like any other woman in the post modern sense, only. If you disagree with that, then you are not liberal. Yours is a brand of conservatism-- a morality that you want to shove down the throats of others. So a liberal transwoman whose personal truth is that she is a woman just like any other woman has to acknowledge the personal truth of men who would not willingly have sexual relations with them.

Mathilda got very upset with me for saying these things, because she doesn't really understand them. She's a bit of a poser. I told her that she was a poser, pretending to know all about issues that she doesn't know anything about. Another transwoman in that discussion agreed that Mathilda sounded like a poser. But that didn't stop Mathilda. Two trans women disagreed with her, and she just kept plowing straight on with her nonsense. Mathilda is that sort of poser who will get mad at trans people who disagree with her on trans issues.

I have been very active on trans issues for my entire life. The discussion about 'red lines' in intimate relations with others is one that I have had with other trans people thousands of times. No trans people have ever called me transphobic. Only a poser like Mathilda would do that. Among transsexuals, the idea that we might be violating the rights of those who would not be willing to have sexual relationships with us if they knew, is a very familiar concept. And since we want out rights to be respected, we tend to be careful with those with whom we are intimate.

I have never had relations with anyone who didn't know, and I never will. It would be wrong for me to do that, because I expect others to respect my personal truth, so I have to respect the personal truth of those who would never willingly have sexual relations with a transsexual.

(April 25, 2019 at 2:19 pm)Yonadav Wrote:

(April 12, 2019 at 4:00 pm)Shell B Wrote: Benny, he identified as male, but had a MTF sex change, according to him. Therefore, "dude" is dude, and that's irrelevant. Whether male or female, he is sexist as a motherfucker.

You have been corrected about this so many times that I think that you must be intentionally lying. Rumor, innuendo, and reputation destruction are the primary means by which women are aggressive. That's one of the 'misogynists' things that I sometimes say, but only because research has found it to be true. So you are posting lies untrue information about me, which is a fairly standard form of female aggression.

I've told you in the past that I self identify as a woman who lives as a man. There is a long story about how that came to be. I've told it to you before, and I don't feel that I have to keep retelling my life story just to correct you every time you tell lies about my life story.

And I see that Mathilda is still spinning her lies about me being transphobic. I'm not transphobic. I have been an advocate for trans rights for my entire life. Mathilda has been calling me transphobic ever since I stated that it is not ethical for a transwoman to have sexual relations with a man who would not have been willing to have sexual relations with her if he had known that she was trans.

There is a bit of confusion among non-trans people about a transsexual's constant struggle between living in terms of post modern truth and reality. Transsexuals for whom it is an every day experience are less confused by it, and the issues is really more of one about appropriate places to draw lines between the two where there might be conflict between the transsexual's rights and those of others. Saying that a male to female transsexual 'is' a woman just like any other woman is 'post modern'. And in polite society, this post modern truth is sort of necessary.

But post modern truth is about respecting the personal truths of others. So if we expect others to respect our post modern truth, then we have to be willing to respect the personal truths of others. The difference between a liberal pov and a conservative pov is the difference between respecting the personal truth of others or telling others what truth they must accept. Many self described liberals get tripped up on this. They try to tell others what  personal truths they have to accept-- which makes their pov a conservative. Saying that homosexuality is normal and transwomen are just normal women does not make you liberal. It might make you liberal, if you respect differing povs. But it just makes you another brand of conservative if you don't respect other povs. If you don't respect other povs, then you are a person who has strong feelings about what the values of all members of society should be, and that is conservative. Anyone with a differing pov isn't 'living in the right way'.

So the transwoman is living her personal truth as a woman. She expects her personal truth to be respected by others. In a polite society, there is nothing wrong with this expectation. But she isn't delusional. She knows that she doesn't have any actual female reproductive organs.  She knows that a chomosome test would say that she is male. She knows that future anthropologists who study her bones will identify them as the bones of a man. She knows the difference between her surgically constructed vagina and a natural vagina. She has a reasonable expectation that her personal truth that she is a woman just like any other woman should be respected.

But if she won't respect the personal truth of others, then she is a hypocrite.  She knows that the personal truth of many men is that transwomen are not really women, and that they would never willingly have sexual relations with a transwoman. A transwoman is a woman like any other woman in the post modern sense, only. If you disagree with that, then you are not liberal. Yours is a brand of conservatism-- a morality that you want to shove down the throats of others. So a liberal transwoman whose personal truth is that she is a woman just like any other woman has to acknowledge the personal truth of men who would not willingly have sexual relations with them.

Mathilda got very upset with me for saying these things, because she doesn't really understand them. She's a bit of a poser. I told her that she was a poser, pretending to know all about issues that she doesn't know anything about. Another transwoman in that discussion agreed that Mathilda sounded like a poser. But that didn't stop Mathilda. Two trans women disagreed with her, and she just kept plowing straight on with her nonsense. Mathilda is that sort of poser who will get mad at trans people who disagree with her on trans issues.

I have been very active on trans issues for my entire life. The discussion about 'red lines' in intimate relations with others is one that I have had with other trans people thousands of times. No trans people have ever called me transphobic. Only a poser like Mathilda would do that. Among transsexuals, the idea that we might be violating the rights of those who would not be willing to have sexual relationships with us if they knew, is a very familiar concept. And since we want out rights to be respected, we tend to be careful with those with whom we are intimate.

I have never had relations with anyone who didn't know, and I never will. It would be wrong for me to do that, because I expect others to respect my personal truth, so I have to respect the personal truth of those who would never willingly have sexual relations with a transsexual.

I don't care.

Boru

Yay. You’re back.

I couldn’t read that whole thing because it was so long. But I find it very interesting that you identify as a woman who lives as a man. Why do you choose to live as a man?

(April 25, 2019 at 3:23 pm)Losty Wrote: I couldn’t read that whole thing because it was so long. But I find it very interesting that you identify as a woman who lives as a man. Why do you choose to live as a man?

I've told my story quite a few times. I was born male but identified as female. I was absolutely horrified at the completely unwelcome penis that was attached to my body. I had that awful thing removed. I lived a fairly normal woman's life for 17 years. I didn't like men, even though a lot of men sure seemed to like me. I think the trauma of having had a penis just made me really hate penises. I was fairly well accepted in the lesbian community and even coupled up for several years. Eventually I got over my hatred of men and started forming friendships with them. I even started to be receptive to the idea of maybe getting together with one, if I found the right one. But I am really, really picky with men. There was one that I might have gotten together with, except for that I was in a committed relationship with a woman at the time that he was interested in me. In my experience, it is the divorced straight men who are most receptive to the idea of hooking up with a trans woman. I guess they are thinking that a trans woman might understand them better. I never did hook up with any guys.

I started dressing as a man when I became religious. Jewish law says that it is forbidden for a man to wear women's clothing. So I started dressing as a man. No one told me that I had to do that. But I had fallen in love with Jewish law, and I wanted to live in accordance with the law. According to Jewish law, I was still male and it was forbidden for me to wear women's clothing. I still thought of myself as female. I don't think of myself as male. I think of myself as a woman who lives as a man. I enjoy being a woman who lives as a man. Before I started living as a man, I never thought that I would enjoy something like that. But I do enjoy it. I'm actually not the only one to have made such a discovery about myself. I personally know a couple of other male to females transsexuals who have discovered that they like being 'female transvestites'. And I have met one female to male who enjoys wearing skirts or dresses.

Wow...

If you’re a woman, then why does it matter that Jewish law says men can’t dress as women? You’re not a man so that rule shouldn’t apply to you right?

I always find it seriously desturbing when lgbtq people become religious. I know how that level of shame and self loathing feels (as I was brought up religious).

Anyway, that’s just my curiousity talking. Very interesting story. Thanks for sharing.

(April 25, 2019 at 4:33 pm)Losty Wrote: Wow...

If you’re a woman, then why does it matter that Jewish law says men can’t dress as women? You’re not a man so that rule shouldn’t apply to you right?

I always find it seriously desturbing when lgbtq people become religious. I know how that level of shame and self loathing feels (as I was brought up religious).

Anyway, that’s just my curiousity talking. Very interesting story. Thanks for sharing.

Because according to Jewish law, I'm not a woman. I'm a man. So wearing women's clothing is prohibited for me.
I don't know why you are disturbed when lgbt people become religious. It's no different than anyone else becoming religious. To me, this is a form of discrimination against lgbt people when you are especially disturbed when one of them becomes religious. I'm trans, so I shouldn't be religious? What else do you think that I have to do or can't do because I'm trans? That's a rhetorical question. I'm just making a point.  


After I became religious, I continued to support trans rights. In fact, trans people are far more accepted within Orthodoxy now, and I was a pretty big part of that. The decision that I made to wear men's clothing was just a decision that I made for myself, and not for others.

Yon, I definitely didn't intentionally misrepresent your gender. I simply misunderstood. I won't call you dude anymore if that bothers you, though I do call women dude as well. Do you prefer to be referred to as him or her?

(April 25, 2019 at 4:44 pm)Yonadav Wrote:

(April 25, 2019 at 4:33 pm)Losty Wrote: Wow...

If you’re a woman, then why does it matter that Jewish law says men can’t dress as women? You’re not a man so that rule shouldn’t apply to you right?

I always find it seriously desturbing when lgbtq people become religious. I know how that level of shame and self loathing feels (as I was brought up religious).

Anyway, that’s just my curiousity talking. Very interesting story. Thanks for sharing.

Because according to Jewish law, I'm not a woman. I'm a man. So wearing women's clothing is prohibited for me.
I don't know why you are disturbed when lgbt people become religious. It's no different than anyone else becoming religious. To me, this is a form of discrimination against lgbt people when you are especially disturbed when one of them becomes religious. I'm trans, so I shouldn't be religious? What else do you think that I have to do or can't do because I'm trans? That's a rhetorical question. I'm just making a point.  


After I became religious, I continued to support trans rights. In fact, trans people are far more accepted within Orthodoxy now, and I was a pretty big part of that. The decision that I made to wear men's clothing was just a decision that I made for myself, and not for others.

Wait...either you identify as a woman or you don’t? If you’re Jewish and you accept that Jewish law says you’re a man...then shouldn’t you be identifying as a man? This is just confusion on my part, not judging you or telling you what to do.

Discrimination? WTF lol. I never ever said that lgbtq people cannot be religious. I said I find it disturbing. As a woman, I find it disturbing when other women subscribe to views that are against women. As an lgbtq person, I find it disturbing when other lgbtq people subject themselves to ideology that requires them to feel shame and self loathing. The reason it bothers me, is because I was a religious person and I’ve spent years of my life feeling awful about myself simply for who I am. Though...tbf, I don’t have a letter. Perhaps your point is that I don’t get to have an opinion because I’m not actually represented in the group. I don’t know. It makes zero sense, either way, to call it discrimination. I’m discussing a feeling that I have. I’m not advocating for banning lgbtq people from religions or anything along those lines. I’m just expressing my personal feeling of discomfort.

(April 25, 2019 at 4:47 pm)Shell B Wrote: Yon, I definitely didn't intentionally misrepresent your gender. I simply misunderstood. I won't call you dude anymore if that bothers you, though I do call women dude as well. Do you prefer to be referred to as him or her?

You can call me dude. I live as a man, so I obviously expect to be called things like 'dude'. But you said that I told you that I self identify as a man, and I have been very clear with you in the past about self identifying as a woman who lives as a man. If you can't discuss the facts about my personal history and get them right, then perhaps you shouldn't discuss my personal history, right?