(July 29, 2019 at 12:46 am)Shell B Wrote:

(July 28, 2019 at 11:13 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Except in this case “being better” is mainly a cosmetic thing, and it’s value and cost is evaluated very much based on strongly held personal and not universally shared preferences, and not on persuasive argument of what generally acknowledged good it can bring.

You really don’t know anything about declawing, do you? It’s not cosmetic, at all.

I am not saying declawing cats are cosmetic.  I am saying forcing other people to not be, to your eyes, cruel to animals as a way to compel others to embark upon what you think are steps towards “being better” as people suggest the “better” is mainly a personal, morally cosmetic, concept.  Causing pain and suffering to animals in order to make the animal better fit our needs and desires has not traditionally been widely considered to be fundamentally morally questionable.   In fact it has long been considered a mark of diligence and enterprise.   Not being cruel to animals have traditionally only been considered laudable when it does not stand in the way of making animals better fit out needs and desires.

(July 28, 2019 at 11:07 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(July 28, 2019 at 10:18 pm)wyzas Wrote: Sorry, even though I don't like declawing I'm not going to take a position. We do a lot worse to many many animals. I'm not going to be that hypocrite.

It's not either or. Every step toward being better as people is surely good, right?

That sounds like a moral judgement for other people. In this instance (animals) I'm only willing to judge myself.

(July 28, 2019 at 11:05 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(July 28, 2019 at 9:37 pm)Alan V Wrote: Well let's see.  The PetsMart where we got our cat seven years ago had us sign a paper saying we would never have her declawed.  Since then she destroyed our couch and easy chair, and the replacements are now covered in plastic which we have to remove any time we want to sit on them comfortably.  

She also left permanent scars on both of my arms when I was trying to put her in a cat carrier for the first time.  (I learned to be more cautious.)

If we can't get a declawed cat next time, we may indeed opt for another kind of animal for a pet, or none at all.  So that will be one less cat which will find a home, and likely one that will be destroyed instead.

Oh, and my wife's niece has three clawed cats which have ruined her table cloth and drapes, and are working on her carpeting.  One is even peeling the wallpaper off the walls in her living and dining rooms.

Pluses and minuses people -- that's the real world, and not this imaginary world where there are no important tradeoffs to consider.

Boofuckinghoo. No one cares about furniture vs. cutting the tips of cats fingers off. That's not an important trade off.

Yes, I already understood your position and that you feel self-righteous about it.

(July 28, 2019 at 8:01 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: AnomalocarisThe issue is should some people’s opinion of what is right or wrong binding on other people when what other people do could have no possible impact on those who think their own opinion ought to bind others.



I think cruelty to animals may be repulsive, but regulating it is in principle wrong.

Boru

People who harm cats should be boiled in oil (twice!)

Never thought about ever doing that to my cats. They are on my yard and garage. They need their claws to defend themselves and to hunt despite well fed. What they do is catch mice and birds, then put them in front of my house main door. I think they are trying to offer me food or sumething.

(July 29, 2019 at 8:05 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: People who harm cats should be boiled in oil (twice!)

What about cats that harm humans (including toddlers), other house cats, dogs, and any living thing that looks like a toy to them.

(July 29, 2019 at 9:07 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(July 29, 2019 at 8:05 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: People who harm cats should be boiled in oil (twice!)

What about cats that harm humans (including toddlers), other house cats, dogs, and any living thing that looks like a toy to them.

You're a confessed abuser and mutilator of animals.  Your opinion means less than nothing.

Boru

(July 29, 2019 at 9:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 29, 2019 at 9:07 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: What about cats that harm humans (including toddlers), other house cats, dogs, and any living thing that looks like a toy to them.

You're a confessed abuser and mutilator of animals.  Your opinion means less than nothing.

Boru

You never ate meat, I take it.

(July 29, 2019 at 9:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 29, 2019 at 9:07 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: What about cats that harm humans (including toddlers), other house cats, dogs, and any living thing that looks like a toy to them.

You're a confessed abuser and mutilator of animals.  Your opinion means less than nothing.

Boru

Monofocused much? Do you rip the innards out of your female cats? Do you cut the balls off your males? Both for YOUR convenience. Compared to those declawing is minimally invasive and doesn't alter the nature of the cat.

But I do like your high horse, even if it's dead.