(July 30, 2019 at 8:35 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote: I guess you put the stopping point on genetic chance where you see fit. Given that you sayed that all pedophiles should be killed, that includes the ones that want to seek help and don't want to harm anyone, and because of that they are innocent, they didn't not choose the attraction that they have, but in a world governed by your way of solving the problem I wonder how many will stop being innocent? (this is not empathy BTW, I just Don t use a lens of hocu pocus to see the world.)

The second part is just an ad hominem.

I have no empathy for people who feel proclivities to have sex with children. Having Down syndrome is not the same as being a pedophile, no matter which way you try to twist and turn it. It simply isn't. Having a genetic disorder or physical deformity/handicap is, in a sense, being a victim. Being a pedophile means you create victims.

And no, Mr. High school debate club, that's not an ad hominem. I'm not avoiding the topic being discussed by attacking you. I openly discussed the topic at hand, then gladly told you you're either dumb or disingenuous. Just a plain old insult. Not an ad hominem.

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(July 30, 2019 at 8:42 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: For more information on the problems with identifying groomers, there’s a documentary on Netflix called Abducted in Plain Sight. it’s about a woman named Jan Broberg who was groomed, molested, and abducted (TWICE) by a family friend named Robert Berchtold. Berchtold went to incredible lengths to inure himself to them up to and including SEDUCING BOTH OF HER PARENTS THEMSELVES. It can actually be astonishingly easy for groomers to break down targets’ defenses, even if those targets know what to look for. I’m not saying it’s not important. I’m saying that some people can even outsmart
people on the lookout for red flags, even in cases as ludicrously obvious as Berchtold.

Despite what you're saying, it's a lot easier to get scammed when you don't know someone is trying to scam you. It's also a lot easier to avoid being scammed when you know someone is trying to scam you.

Someone trying to spend alone time with your child is a red flag that anyone can spot. Where this DOES get tough is when it comes to family members. That's much harder to decipher.

edit: But yes, thank you for bringing up that documentary. I remember watching it and almost the whole time my jaw hitting the floor from complete and utter disbelief.

If you guys ever get a chance, check out a guy on YouTube called 'Anxiety War.' He would gather evidence on and turn in pedophiles to the local police somewhere in Michigan, and I think almost a dozen of them actually got convicted because of his work. I don't think his channel is even up any more, but you can find plenty of reuploads of his videos by other channels.

(July 30, 2019 at 8:43 pm)EgoDeath Wrote:

(July 30, 2019 at 8:35 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote: I guess you put the stopping point on genetic chance where you see fit. Given that you sayed that all pedophiles should be killed, that includes the ones that want to seek help and don't want to harm anyone, and because of that they are innocent, they didn't not choose the attraction that they have, but in a world governed by your way of solving the problem I wonder how many will stop being innocent? (this is not empathy BTW, I just Don t use a lens of hocu pocus to see the world.)

The second part is just an ad hominem.

I have no empathy for people who feel proclivities to have sex with children. Having Down syndrome is not the same as being a pedophile, no matter which way you try to twist and turn it. It simply isn't. Having a genetic disorder or physical deformity/handicap is, in a sense, being a victim. Being a pedophile means you create victims.

And no, Mr. High school debate club, that's not an ad hominem. I'm not avoiding the topic being discussed by attacking you. I openly discussed the topic at hand, then gladly told you you're either dumb or disingenuous. Just a plain old insult. Not an ad hominem.

Bold. You do realize that someone gave you a link that showed it was a disorder? But hey, see just what you want to see. 

And yes you do avoid the topic, after three responses, you are still talking about raping.

(July 30, 2019 at 8:51 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote:

(July 30, 2019 at 8:43 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: I have no empathy for people who feel proclivities to have sex with children. Having Down syndrome is not the same as being a pedophile, no matter which way you try to twist and turn it. It simply isn't. Having a genetic disorder or physical deformity/handicap is, in a sense, being a victim. Being a pedophile means you create victims.

And no, Mr. High school debate club, that's not an ad hominem. I'm not avoiding the topic being discussed by attacking you. I openly discussed the topic at hand, then gladly told you you're either dumb or disingenuous. Just a plain old insult. Not an ad hominem.

Bold. You do realize that someone gave you a link that showed it was a disorder? But hey, see just what you want to see. 

And yes you do avoid the topic, after three responses, you are still talking about raping.

No, I'm not avoiding the topic. I'm aware that Pedophilic Disorder is in the DSM-5 and I'm well aware of what the difference is between PD and actual child molestation. You're missing the point. I don't care. And that you try to defend such a thing truly makes me question who you are and why you made this thread, to be honest.

Also, to everyone else, I take it back, Anxiety War must have reuploaded his videos to his channel, because he also has some new ones. Check this one out here... he not only turns these guys in to police, he also degrades them when he confronts them and publicly humiliates them. It's fucking hilarious.



I'll admit, the guy who runs the channel is a bit eccentric and sort of a weirdo, but I love and respect what he does so much. Dude's funny as fuck.

(July 30, 2019 at 8:57 pm)EgoDeath. Wrote: No, I'm not avoiding the topic. I'm aware that Pedophilic Disorder is in the DSM-5 and I'm well aware of what the difference is between PD and actual child molestation. You're missing the point. I don't care. And that you try to defend such a thing truly makes me question who you are and why you made this thread, to be honest.

If you would have read the first post you would have known why, primarily because I don't think focusing just on punishment helps solve the problem. Just someone not agreeing to killing people just because they were born.

(July 30, 2019 at 5:28 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote: In my country we had a recent event regarding a man that raped and killed a 15 years old girl that showed the incompetence of Romanian police and it's mysoginism. You can find an article about this written by the New York Times (search: romanian pedophile nyt on Google, 2nd link)

Now, a lot of people, including politicians, call for harsher penalties for pedophiles and rapists, but I think that harsher penalties just make us feel better for ourslevs and aren't actually helping the victims or preventing future casualties.

My take on this is to accept future pedophiles and repists in society before they make the crimes(it is obvious that if someone poses a threat to another person and we can't redress that behavior, we have to isolate them) in order to reduce the victims of such behaviors. As an example, you can take the purpatretors of such acts that are enlisted on sexual aggressor lists. This kind of measures don't really affect the number of victims and they apply social pressure on the purpatretors (a negative one), pressure which can lead to recidivism because the purpatretors feel that they can't do anything to redress themselves.

So maybe if we have a positive attitude and try to help them it would reduce the number of victims. I'm talking about prevention, the kind of situation that a friend of your can safely come to you and say, "I feel attracted to children" and you will try to help him.

What do you guys think about this? What is your take on this?

I think you are doing a pretty good job of keeping the topic on track and I suggest spelling out a little further the difference between:
Paedophilia
Hebephilia
Ephebophilia

The case you mention might relate to the latter but actually it could be any of the above since we don't know what's in the mind of the attacker.

Whichever it might be the crime itself was none of the above since none of those are illegal.  Or at least, not illegal in civilised countries... George Orwell taught us that thought-crimes should not be treated as crimes.

The crime is pederasty (and in this case murder).  

The issue is concerning self-control... countering the transition from thoughts to actions.

And it's the same question for many types of crime e.g. rape, but it's also a broader question about control over biological urges e.g. over-eating.

There are workarounds e.g. the burka and there are over-reactions e.g. castrate all males.

Reducing the stigma about being open about one's predilections would help but that requires major cultural change which in this case is impractical (people conflate paedophilia and pederasty all too often, even in this thread).  

A quicker workaround might involve producing a general-purpose Receptor Antagonist drug that anyone can get over-the-counter.  

Probably best not to market it as 'anti-pervert'... best to market it for its empowering, self-control benefits similar to those to help one stop smoking or over-eating.

There's also the deterrent angle.  A few public hangings of pederast-priests might do wonders.

I will come back later on with an update, I have to wake up in 4 hours.

(July 30, 2019 at 9:04 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote: If you would have read the first post you would have known why, primarily because I don't think focusing just on punishment helps solve the problem. Just someone not agreeing to killing people just because they were born.

What makes you think I didn't read the first post? Rehabilitation simply is not wanted by some. Rehabilitation does not work for everyone. Your idealistic thinking is cute and all, but at the end of the day, some people are just bad. Period. We can try to categorize it and normalize it and do all of these things that make us feel nice and warm inside... call it a disease and put it in the DSM. That'll do. And hey, maybe it's a disease. Who knows? Who cares. Some people are just shitty people.

To me, you don't belong here if that's what you think about children. End of story. To me, we should not let those people live among us. If you want to feel sorry for people like that, suit yourself. Maybe you'd find yourself on the wrong end of history one day. Or maybe, as sanctimoniously hypocritical and morally "superior" our society is becoming, maybe I'll be considered barbaric. Probably already am. I don't really care. Luckily, for people like you and the ones you defend, I'm in no real position of power in this world. And I'm okay with that.

I live a good life and take care of those around me. I could not care less that some asshole on the internet wants to baby the poor little pedophiles. For some reason, I feel like we have more important to things to worry about as a society anyway. Like making sure that people who abuse kids get more than a slap on the wrist. Advances in modern medicine and science. So on and so forth.

Interesting that this is the subject you gravitate toward as a plea for mercy, though.

So, because some don't want help, then none should get help? That seems like a terrifying leap.

(July 30, 2019 at 9:31 pm)DLJ Wrote:

(July 30, 2019 at 5:28 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote: In my country we had a recent event regarding a man that raped and killed a 15 years old girl that showed the incompetence of Romanian police and it's mysoginism. You can find an article about this written by the New York Times (search: romanian pedophile nyt on Google, 2nd link)

Now, a lot of people, including politicians, call for harsher penalties for pedophiles and rapists, but I think that harsher penalties just make us feel better for ourslevs and aren't actually helping the victims or preventing future casualties.

My take on this is to accept future pedophiles and repists in society before they make the crimes(it is obvious that if someone poses a threat to another person and we can't redress that behavior, we have to isolate them) in order to reduce the victims of such behaviors. As an example, you can take the purpatretors of such acts that are enlisted on sexual aggressor lists. This kind of measures don't really affect the number of victims and they apply social pressure on the purpatretors (a negative one), pressure which can lead to recidivism because the purpatretors feel that they can't do anything to redress themselves.

So maybe if we have a positive attitude and try to help them it would reduce the number of victims. I'm talking about prevention, the kind of situation that a friend of your can safely come to you and say, "I feel attracted to children" and you will try to help him.

What do you guys think about this? What is your take on this?

I think you are doing a pretty good job of keeping the topic on track and I suggest spelling out a little further the difference between:
Paedophilia
Hebephilia
Ephebophilia

The case you mention might relate to the latter but actually it could be any of the above since we don't know what's in the mind of the attacker.

Whichever it might be the crime itself was none of the above since none of those are illegal.  Or at least, not illegal in civilised countries... George Orwell taught us that thought-crimes should not be treated as crimes.

The crime is pederasty (and in this case murder).  

The issue is concerning self-control... countering the transition from thoughts to actions.

And it's the same question for many types of crime e.g. rape, but it's also a broader question about control over biological urges e.g. over-eating.

There are workarounds e.g. the burka and there are over-reactions e.g. castrate all males.

Reducing the stigma about being open about one's predilections would help but that requires major cultural change which in this case is impractical (people conflate paedophilia and pederasty all too often, even in this thread).  

A quicker workaround might involve producing a general-purpose Receptor Antagonist drug that anyone can get over-the-counter.  

Probably best not to market it as 'anti-pervert'... best to market it for its empowering, self-control benefits similar to those to help one stop smoking or over-eating.

There's also the deterrent angle.  A few public hangings of pederast-priests might do wonders.

Well, I'll be damned. I never went to lift the cover off the dictionary to tell the difference between pedophile and pederast! Thanks for that, DLJ. Post more, I get new directions in education from you.

A distinction with no meaningful difference, as far as I’m concerned. As a mother of two little ones, I’m not confident I can consider this topic objectively. If someone preyed on my kid, he better run for his fucking life because I don’t give a shit if the disease “made” him do it. Have at it, kids. I’m bowing out of this one.