(August 14, 2019 at 8:57 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(August 14, 2019 at 7:59 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Trump has no authority to even attempt to mediate this.  Hong Kong and China are the same country.  What you're suggesting is equal to Germany attempting to mediate a disagreement between England and Wales.

Boru

No, way to miss the point again.

I am saying that Trump's diplomacy sucks, nothing more.

I am not looking for a utopia, and again, I don't want a war with China.

I am saying that the fucker has screwed things up and made things worse.

But it is nonsense to say that ANY President does not have authority. It isn't about dictating, but leading. JFK wasn't dictating to Russia in the Cuban missile crisis. Reagan wasn't dictating to Gorbachev when he said "Tare down that wall." 

They were leading. 

China promised to let Hong Kong do it's own thing when Britain handed them back over. Trump fucked everything up with his bullshit trade war. And during his run and while in office has been constantly sucking up to dictators, and that sends a very bad message to these closed oppressive states, that what they do is ok, and it is not ok.

I am not expecting a American style Revolutionary war by Hong Kong. But I also do not want Trump to fuck up the status quo America and Britain set up for decades.

It is the same fucking tone deaf insensitivity and his love of authoritarians that puts South Korea and Japan at risk with the way he sucks up to Un.

Great news, Brian!  Trump has just offered to meet with Xi to help settle the Hong Kong issue.  I guess this means he's 'leading'.

Boru

(August 15, 2019 at 5:58 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 14, 2019 at 8:57 am)Brian37 Wrote: No, way to miss the point again.

I am saying that Trump's diplomacy sucks, nothing more.

I am not looking for a utopia, and again, I don't want a war with China.

I am saying that the fucker has screwed things up and made things worse.

But it is nonsense to say that ANY President does not have authority. It isn't about dictating, but leading. JFK wasn't dictating to Russia in the Cuban missile crisis. Reagan wasn't dictating to Gorbachev when he said "Tare down that wall." 

They were leading. 

China promised to let Hong Kong do it's own thing when Britain handed them back over. Trump fucked everything up with his bullshit trade war. And during his run and while in office has been constantly sucking up to dictators, and that sends a very bad message to these closed oppressive states, that what they do is ok, and it is not ok.

I am not expecting a American style Revolutionary war by Hong Kong. But I also do not want Trump to fuck up the status quo America and Britain set up for decades.

It is the same fucking tone deaf insensitivity and his love of authoritarians that puts South Korea and Japan at risk with the way he sucks up to Un.

Great news, Brian!  Trump has just offered to meet with Xi to help settle the Hong Kong issue.  I guess this means he's 'leading'.

Boru

Most of the members here, could do a better job because we'd actually listen to our intel.

(August 15, 2019 at 8:00 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(August 15, 2019 at 5:58 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Great news, Brian!  Trump has just offered to meet with Xi to help settle the Hong Kong issue.  I guess this means he's 'leading'.

Boru

Most of the members here, could do a better job because we'd actually listen to our intel.

But you wanted Trump to do something.  He's attempting to do something.  Doesn't that count as leadership?

Boru

(August 15, 2019 at 8:03 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 15, 2019 at 8:00 am)Brian37 Wrote: Most of the members here, could do a better job because we'd actually listen to our intel.

But you wanted Trump to do something.  He's attempting to do something.  Doesn't that count as leadership?

Boru

I want him to leave office, nothing else.  He's fucking things up. Shit,  Darth Vader did a better job protecting the Death Star.

I don't understand you, mate.  You were bitching that Trump wasn't doing anything about Hong Kong, now that he IS attempting something, you're still not happy.

Boru

(August 15, 2019 at 8:22 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I don't understand you, mate.  You were bitching that Trump wasn't doing anything about Hong Kong, now that he IS attempting something, you're still not happy.

Boru

Not happy is his natural state.


Heh

I mean, we all know Trump will totally flub any attempt to moderate anything, but he is "doing something."

Trump has zero clue about the real motivations of any of the major players nor the real life constraints they operate under. He has no idea what factors drive the participants to do what they do, what will address their concerns, and what their ideal of worthwhile trade off it. So he himself has zero capability to moderate or mediate.

He thinks he knows what kind of outcome will stroke his ego and improve his re-election chances, but he will not temper his expectation of attaining this outcome with reality. So he could not abide by anyone who actually knows the reality and will work to deliver what is possible. So he also has no chance having competent staff who can moderate or mediate, and whose work would then allow him to take credit.

So there is no possibility that he could do anything useful.

I mean, of course not.

I personally think he'll say a bunch of stupid, offensive shit and China's problems will not change.

(August 15, 2019 at 1:16 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Trump has zero clue about the real motivations of any of the major players nor the real life constraints they operate under.   He has no idea what factors drive the participants to do what they do, what will address their concerns, and what their ideal of worthwhile trade off it.    So he himself has zero capability to moderate or mediate.

He thinks he knows what kind of outcome will stroke his ego and  improve his re-election chances, but he will not temper his expectation of attaining this outcome with reality.   So he could not abide by anyone who actually knows the reality and will work to deliver what is possible.   So he also has no chance having competent staff who can moderate or mediate, and whose work would then allow him to take credit.

So there is no possibility that he could do anything useful.

Naturally he won't do anything useful - it's not in his nature.  But Brian seemed pissed that he was ignoring Hong Kong.  Now, when Trump is NOT ignoring Hong Kong, Brian seems pissed.

It's a puzzlement and no mistake.

Boru