Hong Kong.........

[Anomalocaris]

1.  No, I take your point, I'm just saying you're wrong.

2.  I agree that Trump's diplomacy sucks.  I'll go further and say that he has no diplomatic skills whatsoever.

3.  I never said you wanted a war with China.

4.  Trump's policies have had no impact - good, bad or indifferent - on the current situation in Hong Kong.

5.  I said Trump has no authority to mediate this dispute.  It's an internal matter within China.  He can attempt to 'lead' all he wants.  He can get on his bully pulpit and tweet what he thinks he knows about Hong Kong.  He has that authority, no question about it.  Be he has no more authority to mediate the dispute than President Xi has the authority to mediate a border spat between North and South Dakota.

6. You're perfectly correct that Trump sucks up to dictators, no argument.  But his trade policies have in no way exacerbated the situation in Hong Kong.  For the teenth time, it has nothing to do with trade.

7.  How do you expect that Trump is going to fuck up this status quo?

8.  North Korea has nothing to do with this.

Please read up on the history of Hong Kong, and try to understand what 'mediate' means.

Boru

Trump is not a politician in Hong Kong or a politician in China, not the point. 

But as a western leader, he sucks at leading. You agree with that, and that is all I am saying.

It is still his job to use diplomacy to not only avoid war, but to support our interests, and Hong Kong being used to western stile government, we should not abandon the protesters, even if we cant control their politics. Real leadership is what JFK did, and what Reagan did. That is all I am saying.

Just like we are not helping Japan or South Korea by having a POTUS who kisses Un's ass. We have no authority over South Korea or Japan, but we do have an influence.

Let me put it bluntly. It is a tug of war between the free west and closed states. The idea is to influence long term to get them to be more open. You don't kiss dictators asses if your goal is to get them to be more open. You don't have to start wars or dictate to them, but you shouldn't embolden them either.

For the four thousand six hundred seventy ninth time.   Kim is his family name.   Jung Un is his given name.   Calling Kim Jung Un Un is like calling Donald Trump Ald.

You manifest contempt for known what you are talking about in anything more the vaguest sense makes your repetitive and  interminable monologues regarding how this or that world event is yet another confirmation of your overarching world view all the more complete wastes of breath.

[Brian37]

Trump is not a politician in Hong Kong or a politician in China, not the point. 

But as a western leader, he sucks at leading. You agree with that, and that is all I am saying.

It is still his job to use diplomacy to not only avoid war, but to support our interests, and Hong Kong being used to western stile government, we should not abandon the protesters, even if we cant control their politics. Real leadership is what JFK did, and what Reagan did. That is all I am saying.

Just like we are not helping Japan or South Korea by having a POTUS who kisses Un's ass. We have no authority over South Korea or Japan, but we do have an influence.

Let me put it bluntly. It is a tug of war between the free west and closed states. The idea is to influence long term to get them to be more open. You don't kiss dictators asses if your goal is to get them to be more open. You don't have to start wars or dictate to them, but you shouldn't embolden them either.

For the four thousand six hundred seventy ninth time.   Kim is his family name.   Jung Un is his given name.   Calling Kim Jung Un Un is like calling Donald Trump Ald.

You manifest contempt for known what you are talking about in anything more the vaguest sense makes your repetitive and  interminable monologues regarding how this or that world event is yet another confirmation of your overarching world view all the more complete wastes of breath.

Yes no shit! I have a last name too, but people call me Brian. Un is his first name. I didn't miss that.

Why do you give a shit if I call him by his first name or his last name? You corrected me a long time ago. I got it. But if I use his first name "Un" instead of his family name "Kim" that still does not make him any less of a fuckface asshole dictator.

"Kim" or "Un"

Just like "Don" and "Trump" a dick is a dick.

[Anomalocaris]

For the four thousand six hundred seventy ninth time.   Kim is his family name.   Jung Un is his given name.   Calling Kim Jung Un Un is like calling Donald Trump Ald.

You manifest contempt for known what you are talking about in anything more the vaguest sense makes your repetitive and  interminable monologues regarding how this or that world event is yet another confirmation of your overarching world view all the more complete wastes of breath.

Yes no shit! I have a last name too, but people call me Brian. Un is his first name. I didn't miss that.

Why do you give a shit if I call him by his first name or his last name? You corrected me a long time ago. I got it. But if I use his first name "Un" instead of his family name "Kim" that still does not make him any less of a fuckface asshole dictator.

"Kim" or "Un"

Just like "Don" and "Trump" a dick is a dick.

No, Un is not his first name.  Jung Un is his first name.  

Again, your utter contempt for accuracy and your self absorbed and strident privileging of what you think ought to be true over the very basics of what actually is true makes all your ramblings essentially worthless to listen to.

---

Guarantee if it becomes a shooting revolution- the lead will only fly one way - and it won't be towards the guys with the AK47s.....

You're going to get to see what happens to an unarmed populace dealing with a dictatorial regime.

It's gonna be reaall ugly.

Ready to go " stand by them" hero?

Like a Dictatorial regime that is both as adaptable and as ruthless in securing the basis of its own power as the communist party of China can not or will not massively outgun any armed populace should the need arise.    The same tanks and armored personnel carriers that ran down unarmed protesters will run down armed protesters just as easily and with more vigor because their crews will now more likely to feel force is justified to use against force, while that margin of firepower superiority would for all practical purposes be exactly the same as if the protestors were unarmed.

Nothing can prevent a blood bath if the CCP thinks that's what is needed to maintain order and secure its own basis of power.  Armed citizenry will simply become a much smaller unarmed citizenry.

[Secular Elf]

I do not want to hear jack shit from Republicans or Libertarians, if they are going to rightfully say they hate Communism, then run like cowards saying it is an "internal affair". The truth of our western billionaires, not all, but far too many, look at China's authoritarian capitalism, where their workers have no rights, and hyper nationalism and blind loyalty are expected from their Communist party.

Sorry it may bother any republican or libertarian poster here. BUT FUCK YOU, I am a liberal, not a Stalin Soviet Socialist, not a Hitler Fascist. I stand with Hong Kong's protesters. Morals extend beyond profits.

I'm happy to know where you stand on this issue.  I think the protestors are in the right regarding the extradition laws.  But they should understand - as I'm sure you do - that Hong Kong has been a part of China since 1997.  It is a semi-autonomous region, somewhat analogous to Puerto Rico's relationship with the US.  How do you imagine the US would react if protestors in PR were to shut down the Port of San Juan, or the airport?

Boru

That is a fair point. Saw on the news last night where Beijing has sent in a few caravans of The People's Army to the border of Hong Kong. I am with the people of Hong Kong, but I am afraid this will not end well for them, unless they take immediate steps to arm themselves. Remember Tianenmen Square back in 1989?

The following may be off topic, but I do not think it is unreasonable for the Left here in America to arm ourselves and organize a resistance army in case Cheeto-head, that sorry sack of filthy garbage occupying the White House, wins the 2020 Presidential Election. In that situation the first ones who should be held accountable must be the Electoral College. Then after that the Conservative Republican shits who lick Drumph's ass and suck his dick.

Just saying, if you really want to fight the bastards, joining hands and singing kum-ba-ya ain't gonna cut it.

[onlinebiker]

Yes no shit! I have a last name too, but people call me Brian. Un is his first name. I didn't miss that.

Why do you give a shit if I call him by his first name or his last name? You corrected me a long time ago. I got it. But if I use his first name "Un" instead of his family name "Kim" that still does not make him any less of a fuckface asshole dictator.

"Kim" or "Un"

Just like "Don" and "Trump" a dick is a dick.

No, Un is not his first name.  Jung Un is his first name.  

Again, your utter contempt for accuracy and your self absorbed and strident privileging of what you think ought to be true over the very basics of what actually is true makes all your ramblings essentially worthless to listen to.

---

Guarantee if it becomes a shooting revolution- the lead will only fly one way - and it won't be towards the guys with the AK47s.....

You're going to get to see what happens to an unarmed populace dealing with a dictatorial regime.

It's gonna be reaall ugly.

Ready to go " stand by them" hero?

Like a Dictatorial regime that is both as adaptable and as ruthless in securing the basis of its own power as the communist party of China can not or will not massively outgun any armed populace should the need arise.    The same tanks and armored personnel carriers that ran down unarmed protesters will run down armed protesters just as easily and with more vigor because their crews will now more likely to feel force is justified to use against force, while that margin of firepower superiority would for all practical purposes be exactly the same as if the protestors were unarmed.

Nothing can prevent a blood bath if the CCP thinks that's what is needed to maintain order and secure its own basis of power.  Armed citizenry will simply become a much smaller unarmed citizenry.

You've made a large error.

You assume that I think giving the citizens of Hong Kong guns now would make a difference.

It won't. They' re seriously fucked.


The problem is they long ago lost their right to arms (or never had it) and allowed their government to become the dictitorial juggernaught it has become.


That's what happens.

[Secular Elf]

Are the Republicans okay with the government retaliating with force? I'm pretty sure they condemn it too. The problem is, what are we supposed to do? Go to war with China? With Trump at the helm? No fucking thanks.

"Capitalism" knows no boarders. This is not the same GOP/Democrat unity we had in WW2, or post WW2.

I don't want to go to war with China either. But that fucking party has shit on liberals as if we were Stalin and Castro. Considering that they are in the pocket of billionaires, and those billionaires make all their crap in China, I find it a bit hypocritical they try to paint liberals as the bad guys.

The world's billionaires, friend and foe alike go where they can use the cheapest labor and cheapest material. 

If the GOP is going to rightfully condemn oppression then I don't want them vilifying me because I am also on the side of Hong Kong's protesters, and I also do not want war either. But if you listen to the GOP I am out to end the private sector, and I am out to end political pluralism, which I am NOT!

The idea of the west, isn't to concede morals to oppressive states.

---

If the GOP is for an open and free Hong Kong, then don't shit on me when I agree. Don't vilify me because I value worker stability. Don't vilify me because I want their population to have a a say in how they are ruled and value oversight.

---

I'm happy to know where you stand on this issue.  I think the protestors are in the right regarding the extradition laws.  But they should understand - as I'm sure you do - that Hong Kong has been a part of China since 1997.  It is a semi-autonomous region, somewhat analogous to Puerto Rico's relationship with the US.  How do you imagine the US would react if protestors in PR were to shut down the Port of San Juan, or the airport?

Boru

Again, I do not want a war with China either. But lets not fool ourselves here. All this bullshit talk about the GOP supporting a free Hong Kong is just that, knowing that all the crap we buy here at Walmart and dollar stores, and our laptops and cell phones are made there. Their billionaires and our billionaires dont give a fuck.

Right now there is a western billionaire and a Chinese billionaire in board rooms or on cell phones talking to each other saying "All these uppity  humans are fucking up  our greed. "

Since I could not find an emoji for "nailed it", I have to say, Boru, you nailed it on the head.

---

No, the protests are about a change in the extraditions laws, not trade.

Boru

DUH!

Still connected though. Government of all countries make laws. China doesn't want Hong Kong to affect anything, because if they do, it can be a domino.

The global market, both friend and foe alike are used like poker chips used  to influence others.

Yes, the protests began as anti-extradition. But now it has evolved into a pro-democracy, anti-government movement. That makes them a threat to the authority of the Chinese Communist Party. The hard-asses in the Beijing Politburo did not stand for it in the 1989 uprising in Tianenmen, and they will not stand for it in Hong Kong. Unfortunately, we may see some bloodshed within the next week or two, if not in a few days.

---

Trump has no authority to even attempt to mediate this.  Hong Kong and China are the same country.  What you're suggesting is equal to Germany attempting to mediate a disagreement between England and Wales.

Boru

No, way to miss the point again.

I am saying that Trump's diplomacy sucks, nothing more.

I am not looking for a utopia, and again, I don't want a war with China.

I am saying that the fucker has screwed things up and made things worse.

But it is nonsense to say that ANY President does not have authority. It isn't about dictating, but leading. JFK wasn't dictating to Russia in the Cuban missile crisis. Reagan wasn't dictating to Gorbachev when he said "Tare down that wall." 

They were leading. 

China promised to let Hong Kong do it's own thing when Britain handed them back over. Trump fucked everything up with his bullshit trade war. And during his run and while in office has been constantly sucking up to dictators, and that sends a very bad message to these closed oppressive states, that what they do is ok, and it is not ok.

I am not expecting a American style Revolutionary war by Hong Kong. But I also do not want Trump to fuck up the status quo America and Britain set up for decades.

It is the same fucking tone deaf insensitivity and his love of authoritarians that puts South Korea and Japan at risk with the way he sucks up to Un.

True. I can see Cheeto-head's buddy, Vlad, laughing his head off as he drinks his vodka and smokes his cigar, because America's Foreign Policy, as currently run by the Trump Regime's gobheads, makes the U.S. weaker on the world stage.

[Brian37]

Trump is not a politician in Hong Kong or a politician in China, not the point. 

But as a western leader, he sucks at leading. You agree with that, and that is all I am saying.

It is still his job to use diplomacy to not only avoid war, but to support our interests, and Hong Kong being used to western stile government, we should not abandon the protesters, even if we cant control their politics. Real leadership is what JFK did, and what Reagan did. That is all I am saying.

Just like we are not helping Japan or South Korea by having a POTUS who kisses Un's ass. We have no authority over South Korea or Japan, but we do have an influence.

Let me put it bluntly. It is a tug of war between the free west and closed states. The idea is to influence long term to get them to be more open. You don't kiss dictators asses if your goal is to get them to be more open. You don't have to start wars or dictate to them, but you shouldn't embolden them either.

Tell me what you think the Hong Kong protests are about and what you think Trump should do regarding them.

Boru

The protests are about the mainland interfering with Hong Kong's laws, and they are protesting those arrested being transferred to the mainland for prosecution.

Trump isn't going to do shit, or at least anything that would be effective. He made things worse. 

But what I would want from a sane president, in his place, would be to mitigate any any erosion of rights for Hong Kong's population.

[BryanS]

Tell me what you think the Hong Kong protests are about and what you think Trump should do regarding them.

Boru

The protests are about the mainland interfering with Hong Kong's laws, and they are protesting those arrested being transferred to the mainland for prosecution.

Trump isn't going to do shit, or at least anything that would be effective. He made things worse. 

But what I would want from a sane president, in his place, would be to mitigate any any erosion of rights for Hong Kong's population.

So, to put it more succinctly, there is nothing in particular you can think of Trump that should do about it. Got it.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Tell me what you think the Hong Kong protests are about and what you think Trump should do regarding them.

Boru

The protests are about the mainland interfering with Hong Kong's laws, and they are protesting those arrested being transferred to the mainland for prosecution.

Trump isn't going to do shit, or at least anything that would be effective. He made things worse. 

But what I would want from a sane president, in his place, would be to mitigate any any erosion of rights for Hong Kong's population.

Good!  You grasp the basics of the situation.  Now: 1) Tell me, specifically, what you think Trump should do about it, 2) what he's done that's made it worse, and 3) what you would expect from a different US president to 'mitigate' the erosion of rights in Hong Kong.

Boru

[Little lunch]

So un is Jung Kim's middle name, got it.