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RE: The Struggle to do Good
June 7, 2020 at 5:49 am
(This post was last modified: June 7, 2020 at 5:50 am by brokenreflector.)
(June 7, 2020 at 5:43 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: What difference do you think the possible existence of god makes to morality?
God's existence provides a foundation for objective moral values and duties. Without God there are no objective moral values and duties.
Quote:Some people think it is moral to kill their daughters for talking to boys.
Some people think its moral to kill homosexuals.
If there are no objective moral values and duties, then it'd just be your personal-relative belief that killing girls for talking to boys and killing homosexuals is evil.
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RE: The Struggle to do Good
June 7, 2020 at 5:52 am
(This post was last modified: June 7, 2020 at 5:57 am by The Grand Nudger.)
For a thing to be objective, it must be indepedent of any given subject - by definition.
I get that you don't believe that anything could be indepedent of your god - but that's a problem for moral objectivity, not for atheists. If what you believe is true, morality cannot be objective.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Struggle to do Good
June 7, 2020 at 5:57 am
(June 7, 2020 at 5:52 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: For a thing to be objective, it must be indepedent of any given subject - by definition.
False.
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RE: The Struggle to do Good
June 7, 2020 at 6:00 am
What do you think it means, lol?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Struggle to do Good
June 7, 2020 at 6:03 am
(This post was last modified: June 7, 2020 at 6:06 am by brokenreflector.)
(June 7, 2020 at 6:00 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: What do you think it means, lol?
Something is objective if it exists without the need of any subject's perception.
God exists without the need of any subject's perception; and God exists without the need of any subject's perception in every possible world, including the actual world.
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RE: The Struggle to do Good
June 7, 2020 at 6:08 am
Exactly that, yes. If morality is objective, then it exists without the need of any subjects perception. Gods included.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Struggle to do Good
June 7, 2020 at 6:11 am
(This post was last modified: June 7, 2020 at 6:12 am by brokenreflector.)
(June 7, 2020 at 6:08 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Exactly that, yes. If morality is objective, then it exists without the need of any subjects perception. Gods included.
God's existence, including all of His properties, are independent of any subject's perception. Therefore, objective moral values and duties exist in God's nature. Moreover, since God exists in all possible worlds, including the actual, these objective moral values and duties would also be necessary.
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RE: The Struggle to do Good
June 7, 2020 at 6:15 am
Whether morality is objective or subjective is not a question of whether god exists. It's a question of whether moral statements are independent of a given subject, including gods.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Struggle to do Good
June 7, 2020 at 6:17 am
(June 7, 2020 at 6:15 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Whether morality is objective or subjective is not a question of whether god exists.
Sure it is because without God there cannot be objective moral values and duties.
Quote:It's a question of whether moral statements are independent of a given subject
God's moral nature is independent of any subject's perception, so it's objective.
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RE: The Struggle to do Good
June 7, 2020 at 6:19 am
(June 6, 2020 at 10:42 pm)brokenreflector Wrote: (June 6, 2020 at 10:38 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: Does god decide what is moral?
He doesn't decide, no.
So your god, if he existed, isn't the ultimate being then. There is something greater than him that decides what is moral.
Way to undermine yor religion, idiot.
Urbs Antiqua Fuit Studiisque Asperrima Belli
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