(October 31, 2020 at 6:34 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I don’t like them, but I’m not ‘set against them’ either. I just prefer that they be kept out of the hands of irresponsible people.

Boru

Then why not craft legislation that effects the irresponsible people - rather than the law abiding?

(October 31, 2020 at 6:40 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(October 31, 2020 at 6:34 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I don’t like them, but I’m not ‘set against them’ either. I just prefer that they be kept out of the hands of irresponsible people.

Boru

Then why not craft legislation that effects the irresponsible people - rather than the law abiding?

Sounds fair to me. I don’t think I’ve ever promoted legislation targeting people who are responsible about their guns.

Boru

(October 31, 2020 at 6:42 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 31, 2020 at 6:40 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Then why not craft legislation that effects the irresponsible people - rather than the law abiding?

Sounds fair to me. I don’t think I’ve ever promoted legislation targeting people who are responsible about their guns.

Boru

Sure you have. We will give you benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't realize it.

ALL current gun laws target the LEGAL buyers of firearms. Who buys guns legally? The law abiding.

What good do waiting periods do for someone who plans to use that gun in a legal manner? None.


....

I have put this forward many times.

1. Require identification for ALL firearm sales - through FFL dealers and private individuals.


2. Make all problem children - i.e. - anyone who has been stripped of their rights to own a firearm to have a "NO GUNS" flag on their I.D..

3. Make it a class 1 felony to sell a firearm to the problem children.


There you have legislation aimed at the problem - not the law abiding.


They'll never go for it of course - because everyone knows that owning a firearm will turn you into a murderous asshat.

And none of that will work. Because the "problem children " is not an easily identified thing. This isn't a John Wayne movie where the bad guys were black hats. Broad laws that apply to everyone exist for a reason. And the strawmen of your opponent's position is hilarious.

(October 31, 2020 at 6:54 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(October 31, 2020 at 6:42 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Sounds fair to me. I don’t think I’ve ever promoted legislation targeting people who are responsible about their guns.

Boru

Sure you have. We will give you benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't realize it.

ALL current gun laws target the LEGAL buyers of firearms. Who buys guns legally? The law abiding.

What good do waiting periods do for someone who plans to use that gun in a legal manner? None.


....

I have put this forward many times.

1. Require identification for ALL firearm sales - through FFL dealers and private individuals.


2. Make all problem children - i.e. - anyone who has been stripped of their rights to own a firearm to have a "NO GUNS" flag on their I.D..

3. Make it a class 1 felony to sell a firearm to the problem children.


There you have legislation aimed at the problem - not the law abiding.


They'll never go for it of course - because everyone knows that owning a firearm will turn you into a murderous asshat.

How does better vetting target the law abiding? If you haven’t  broken any serious laws, if you’re not mentally unstable, and if you can demonstrate that you’re willing to use and store your weapons in a responsible manner, I don’t see why you SHOULDN’T be able to purchase a firearm. 

But you raise a fair point that if people who currently own firearms violate these provisions in future, they should no longer be allowed to own firearms.

We’re really not all that far apart on this.

Boru

(October 31, 2020 at 7:27 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 31, 2020 at 6:54 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Sure you have. We will give you benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't realize it.

ALL current gun laws target the LEGAL buyers of firearms. Who buys guns legally? The law abiding.

What good do waiting periods do for someone who plans to use that gun in a legal manner? None.


....

I have put this forward many times.

1. Require identification for ALL firearm sales - through FFL dealers and private individuals.


2. Make all problem children - i.e. - anyone who has been stripped of their rights to own a firearm to have a "NO GUNS" flag on their I.D..

3. Make it a class 1 felony to sell a firearm to the problem children.


There you have legislation aimed at the problem - not the law abiding.


They'll never go for it of course - because everyone knows that owning a firearm will turn you into a murderous asshat.

How does better vetting target the law abiding? If you haven’t  broken any serious laws, if you’re not mentally unstable, and if you can demonstrate that you’re willing to use and store your weapons in a responsible manner, I don’t see why you SHOULDN’T be able to purchase a firearm. 

But you raise a fair point that if people who currently own firearms violate these provisions in future, they should no longer be allowed to own firearms.

We’re really not all that far apart on this.

Boru

You just believe the law should apply to everyone equally

(October 31, 2020 at 7:36 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(October 31, 2020 at 7:27 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: How does better vetting target the law abiding? If you haven’t  broken any serious laws, if you’re not mentally unstable, and if you can demonstrate that you’re willing to use and store your weapons in a responsible manner, I don’t see why you SHOULDN’T be able to purchase a firearm. 

But you raise a fair point that if people who currently own firearms violate these provisions in future, they should no longer be allowed to own firearms.

We’re really not all that far apart on this.

Boru

You just believe the law should apply to everyone equally

And I think OLB believes that as well, we just express it differently.

Boru

(October 31, 2020 at 7:40 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 31, 2020 at 7:36 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: You just believe the law should apply to everyone equally

And I think OLB believes that as well, we just express it differently.

Boru

Fair enough

(October 31, 2020 at 7:27 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 31, 2020 at 6:54 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Sure you have. We will give you benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't realize it.

ALL current gun laws target the LEGAL buyers of firearms. Who buys guns legally? The law abiding.

What good do waiting periods do for someone who plans to use that gun in a legal manner? None.


....

I have put this forward many times.

1. Require identification for ALL firearm sales - through FFL dealers and private individuals.


2. Make all problem children - i.e. - anyone who has been stripped of their rights to own a firearm to have a "NO GUNS" flag on their I.D..

3. Make it a class 1 felony to sell a firearm to the problem children.


There you have legislation aimed at the problem - not the law abiding.


They'll never go for it of course - because everyone knows that owning a firearm will turn you into a murderous asshat.

How does better vetting target the law abiding? If you haven’t  broken any serious laws, if you’re not mentally unstable, and if you can demonstrate that you’re willing to use and store your weapons in a responsible manner, I don’t see why you SHOULDN’T be able to purchase a firearm. 

But you raise a fair point that if people who currently own firearms violate these provisions in future, they should no longer be allowed to own firearms.

We’re really not all that far apart on this.

Boru

How many times do you have to ask a law abiding person "are you obeying the law?" before the question just becomes stupidly redundant? What does asking the same question over and over accomplish?

I agree with onlinebiker on this. It's folly to think that legalising yourself to stricter gun control, would somehow magically affect actual "gun control" in equal measure.

I don't have a good impromptu solution, nor do I think there is one, when there are so bloody many of them around already in circulation. Any "gun control" measure has to take this prevalence in serious account, and the main hurdle as an outside observer, is the fetishism of guns.