(November 2, 2020 at 12:47 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 2, 2020 at 11:59 am)Eleven Wrote: I voted, but I'm stating this as fact right now: if Trump is reelected, I'm never voting again. My vote has never counted when I actually took the time to vote. When I didn't vote, everything was fine.

I think that is a bit superstitious and quite frankly giving up.

I will never stop voting and never stop raising my voice. If I am going to go down, I am going to go down fighting, with my voice.

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(November 2, 2020 at 11:59 am)Eleven Wrote: I voted, but I'm stating this as fact right now: if Trump is reelected, I'm never voting again. My vote has never counted when I actually took the time to vote. When I didn't vote, everything was fine.

I think that is a bit superstitious and quite frankly giving up.

I will never stop voting and never stop raising my voice. If I am going to go down, I am going to go down fighting, with my voice.

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OOOPS, sorry for the double post.

Same here. We shouid never give up. This is OUR government, OUR republic damnit! If we have to have another revolution, a civil war to keep our freedoms intact, if we have to bust a few heads, even kill to keep OUR country, so be it!!

Do you know what it's time for?

(November 2, 2020 at 12:58 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 2, 2020 at 12:51 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: No matter who wins the election the shit show is far from over.

You know those riots and craziness after a big game?  They will pale with what goes on after the election is called.

I shudder to think how much chaos Trump can create between November 4 and January 20.

I don't think there will be an all out civil war. While Trump has appointees at the top of our institutions, we still have a diverse military and intel agencies and career brass, we can expect to see pockets of nuts escalating.

If his followers get violent, it will not play well for most. 

I fear more the fucker starting a war with Iran or North Korea. Trump is a cult leader and is willing to scorch the earth to avoid any responsibility. 

I hope if he tries our intel and military and CIA will put their foot down.

Maybe not so much, Dominionists have infested our military:

Quote:Donald Trump's election has led to such a steep rise in fundamentalist Christian evangelizing and religious bigotry in the U.S. armed forces that the matter is reaching the level of a "national security threat," according to information shared exclusively with Newsweek by an organization that represents and advocates for secular and minority religious views in the military.  

The number of complaints from servicemen and -women in the Army, Air Force, Marines and other service branches to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) has doubled in number since November 2016, according to lawyer Michael "Mikey" Weinstein, a former Air Force officer who founded the organization.  

Many of the recent charges are coming from members of minority religions, including Roman Catholics, Jews and Muslims, and from atheists. Among the complaints: military family and marital therapy programs are being infused with Protestant Christianity, which would violate the U.S. Constitution; open anti-Semitism; anti-LGBT statements, posters, symbols and bullying; openly anti-Muslim teachers and Islamophobic attacks; a rise in on-base evangelizing; and increased pressure on recruits or lower-level personnel and service members to convert to fundamentalist Christianity.  

"With the advent of Trump as the commander in chief of our armed forces, MRFF has experienced a massive influx of new military and civilian personnel complaints of religion-based prejudice and bigotry, most of them coming from non-fundamentalist Christians being persecuted by their military superiors for not being 'Christian enough,'" Weinstein tells Newsweek.

He says noncommissioned officers at one Air Force base reported that their superiors told them Trump would make it USAF policy that in order for "disbelieving Jews" to be allowed into the USAF or deemed fit for promotions, they would have to show via objectively established behavior that they were at least honestly "considering the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ."

 Newsweek, 5/22/17

A split within the rank and file and officer corps of our military will no doubt lead to deep trouble. How many will disobey orders to initiate martial law, or shoot civilians?? It ain't gonna be pretty.

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(November 2, 2020 at 1:28 pm)Sal Wrote:

(November 2, 2020 at 12:51 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: No matter who wins the election the shit show is far from over.

You know those riots and craziness after a big game?  They will pale with what goes on after the election is called.

I shudder to think how much chaos Trump can create between November 4 and January 20.

This is speculation, so take it with a lorry full of salt.

I expect Trump, after the election results are counted & confirmed, to try to consolidate supporters by forming and arming some kind of national paramilitary, from loose militia groups and up and including support from actual military. But because Trump & Co. are so fucking incompetent, Pentagon will have nothing of it and they will cut it off at its source before they're able to fuck shit up, preemptively.

Most of the Trump cultists will be shocked by this reality check, but will adapt and begrudgingly accept it. They. Will. Not. Go. Away. They will do it all over again, 4 years later. However, a considerable amount of the minority cultists, fanatics through and through, will not accept it and will actively stir shit up. What exactly they will do, is anyone's guess, but I expect the fanatics in sheer stochastic manner target anything they beforehand deem to be not-Trump related, which could be as banal as someone on the street with the 'incorrect' skin hue getting assaulted up to and including 'liberal' and/or 'lefty' institutions. Shit will hit the fan, depending on the amount of Trump fanatics that are competent enough to hold a gun and not shoot themselves in the foot.

I also expect, those on the other side of the aisle - who are the majority - to hunker down and take up a defensive position, and ride the storm out, and let the fanatics burn themselves out.

Unsurprisingly, fanatics are renowned to self-cannibalize, so, sadly though, a lot of them will duke it out amongst themselves because of some perceived failure to install the Glorious Leader for a 2nd term against those who weren't fanatical enough. Exactly how vast this process of self-cannibalization will go depends on how cohesive they are, in organizational terms, and how well their abhorrent values align with one another. Since being fanatics, there is very little wiggle room for nuance, and the extreme levels of conformity in both behavior, slogans, and physical appearance will decide this.

I shudder to think what kind of supreme fanatics will come out on top, and who will, being intelligent enough to realize they lost, go into hiding again, while the others, less intelligent, getting killed in pointless combat will be remembered among both fanatics and cultists alike, as martyrs.

That's the most extreme possible outcome. I don't think, despite the severity of this situation, that it will become a full-fledged civil war thanks to the sane parts of the military fighting for some lofty ideal about keeping the peace, who luckily are the vast majority of the military.

I hope you are right regarding the more sane individuals within our military. But I think we must also consider that there may be a few cunning individuals among the Right Wing fanatics who could garner power and support in the name of Trump, or maybe make him or herself look a more attractive alternative to Trump to carry on their cause. For example, the the infighting of the ancient Romans that led to their Empire being formed: Augustus, Octavian, Julius Ceasar Even if we do manage to bring Trump down, there is his family and Trumpism to deal with. Wishing them to go away will not make it so. You get rid of a beast by hunting it down and killing it.

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(November 2, 2020 at 2:51 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(November 2, 2020 at 2:16 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: It's not over until it's over.

It ain't over till the fat orange guy is dragged kicking and screaming from the White House.

Let us not forget: tried, found guilty, and executed for treason.

Ugh. I feel like I was diagnosed with cancer years ago. And I spent a long time fighting it. And I lost a lot of my health and the cancer did a lot of damage and I may never completely recover from it. But now, I'm sitting in the doctors office, waiting to see if the cancer is in remission or if we're going to have to suffer for at least another 4 years.

As it is, I mean, holding Trump himself accountable wouldn't be bad, but I don't want that to be the primary goal. How about legislation, policy, laws..... those are the things I want to focus on. I'd rather Trump walk away, scott free, and we raise taxes on billionaires. I'm far more worried with the right wing propaganda machine than I am with Trump (who, btw, is nothing more than a product of that propaganda machine). How about we worry more about balancing the supreme court that Moscow Mitch went out of his way to throw out of balance? If we don't do that, there are going to be a LOT of problems for a very long time. With the SCOTUS as it is now, I can very easily see Roe v Wade and Obamacare both being overturned, same sex marriage being thrown out and there will be no chance of repealing Citizens United.

Yes, absolutely, throw out the republican con men, including the orange skinned sack of crap, but don't forget about the legislation and policies that are so important.

(November 2, 2020 at 1:31 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(November 2, 2020 at 1:28 pm)Sal Wrote: This is speculation, so take it with a lorry full of salt.

I expect Trump, after the election results are counted & confirmed, to try to consolidate supporters by forming and arming some kind of national paramilitary, from loose militia groups and up and including support from actual military. But because Trump & Co. are so fucking incompetent, Pentagon will have nothing of it and they will cut it off at its source before they're able to fuck shit up, preemptively.

Most of the Trump cultists will be shocked by this reality check, but will adapt and begrudgingly accept it. They. Will. Not. Go. Away. They will do it all over again, 4 years later. However, a considerable amount of the minority cultists, fanatics through and through, will not accept it and will actively stir shit up. What exactly they will do, is anyone's guess, but I expect the fanatics in sheer stochastic manner target anything they beforehand deem to be not-Trump related, which could be as banal as someone on the street with the 'incorrect' skin hue getting assaulted up to and including 'liberal' and/or 'lefty' institutions. Shit will hit the fan, depending on the amount of Trump fanatics that are competent enough to hold a gun and not shoot themselves in the foot.

I also expect, those on the other side of the aisle - who are the majority - to hunker down and take up a defensive position, and ride the storm out, and let the fanatics burn themselves out.

Unsurprisingly, fanatics are renowned to self-cannibalize, so, sadly though, a lot of them will duke it out amongst themselves because of some perceived failure to install the Glorious Leader for a 2nd term against those who weren't fanatical enough. Exactly how vast this process of self-cannibalization will go depends on how cohesive they are, in organizational terms, and how well their abhorrent values align with one another. Since being fanatics, there is very little wiggle room for nuance, and the extreme levels of conformity in both behavior, slogans, and physical appearance will decide this.

I shudder to think what kind of supreme fanatics will come out on top, and who will, being intelligent enough to realize they lost, go into hiding again, while the others, less intelligent, getting killed in pointless combat will be remembered among both fanatics and cultists alike, as martyrs.

That's the most extreme possible outcome. I don't think, despite the severity of this situation, that it will become a full-fledged civil war thanks to the sane parts of the military fighting for some lofty ideal about keeping the peace, who luckily are the vast majority of the military.

Of course it's speculation.  My crystal ball is in the shop.

There is no "crystal ball" in our species history. History has constantly proven, that when a society is vulnerable they are far more likely to be manipulated by by a sociopath who doesn't give a shit about anything but power.

The good thing is that humans can and do resist bullies. The downside is that history is not a given.

(November 4, 2020 at 10:45 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 2, 2020 at 1:31 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Of course it's speculation.  My crystal ball is in the shop.

There is no "crystal ball" in our species history. History has constantly proven, that when a society is vulnerable they are far more likely to be manipulated by by a sociopath who doesn't give a shit about anything but power.

The good thing is that humans can and do resist bullies. The downside is that history is not a given.

Not unexpected, but you completely missed the point of my comment.

I posted what I thought would happen over the election.  It was pointed out by another that what I thought was merely speculation.  To which I replied that of course it is speculation as I don't have a crystal ball to see into the future.  That nuance thing you thing you think you can suss out turns out to be another thing you just don't get.

Any and all predictions made are/were speculation.

For what it’s worth, it looks like Biden has 238 electoral votes and Trump 213.

Biden also has the lead in three states that haven’t been decided: Wisconsin, Michigan, and Nevada. Combined number of votes for these three states: 32. Total for the cheap seats: 270. So, if nothing changes, we’re looking at a likely Biden win.

(November 3, 2020 at 7:47 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: Do you know what it's time for?

It is ironic that tons of pop rock in the late 70s and throughout the 80s was pro Reagan. Even my fave that many here know 99 Luft Balloons, was anti communist.

But here we are today, staring down the barrel of a fuckwad who pretends to advocate for freedom but gets votes from assholes who buy his Marshal Applewhite, Jim Jones suicidal utopias.

(November 4, 2020 at 11:23 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: For what it’s worth, it looks like Biden has 238 electoral votes and Trump 213.

Biden also has the lead in three states that haven’t been decided: Wisconsin, Michigan, and Nevada. Combined number of votes for these three states: 32. Total for the cheap seats: 270. So, if nothing changes, we’re looking at a likely Biden win.

Assuming he maintains those leads and none of the 270 electors turn out faithless. Hopefully, Biden continues to to thrash the huge lead Trumpleforeskin had in Pennsylvania. He's closed the gap by around 300,000 votes with a LOT of early ballots left to count. I'll be much more comfortable if Biden can flip at least one more for some cushion.