Aristocatt - RE "evidence of racism" - The use of racist language during the incident, a history of racism online by the perp, a lack of comparable "white on white" arrest "difficulties" (RE George Floyd, I refer you to the tragic case of Tony Timpa, a white YOUNG man who was crushed to death by police, joking and laughing all the while to boot), testament of those suspected of racism from colleagues/friends/relatives that they hold racist views...stuff like that.

ETA: The police flagrantly stepping outside the law in their actions. RE George Floyd it is important to note that "neck kneeling" is an authorised "pacification technique" listed in the Minneapolis police handbook.

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(December 29, 2020 at 4:28 pm)Brian37 Wrote: America has a systemic inequality problem in policing. Blacks and other minorities are at far higher risk of injury or death when interacting with police than whites. Even if blacks make it to jail, they are on average charged more harshly and sentenced more harshly and fined more harshly than a white person who commits a similar crime.

My red - There is "racial" disparity in crime, but is that due largely/in the majority to racism, or something else, such as a glorification of the gangster life in "black music" and a wish to "stick it to the white man slavers!" by living a life of crime - evidence is lacking for either, so to conclude: RACISM! seems clearly...premature....as well as the most divisive and hysterical conclusion, IMO.

My bold - do you have citations for that, please?

(December 29, 2020 at 4:50 pm)Lawz Wrote: Aristocatt - RE "evidence of racism" - The use of racist language during the incident, a history of racism online by the perp, a lack of comparable "white on white" arrest "difficulties" (RE George Floyd, I refer you to the tragic case of Tony Timpa, a white YOUNG man who was crushed to death by police, joking and laughing all the while to boot), testament of those suspected of racism from colleagues/friends/relatives that they hold racist views...stuff like that.

Right, so to follow up on that...
Do you think that things like systemic racism exist?  
E.g. Do you think we can infer that some kind of racial animus/prejudice exists in the judicial system when black American minors are disproportionately charged as adults relative to white Americans, even if no one in the process has made their racial animus explicit in public, or otherwise?

What I am getting at is do you think it is reasonable to infer racism by an individuals actions if there is a lack of explicit intent?

Edit: I think if I am asking these questions, I should at least be willing to answer them myself...So my answer is yes. While I can recognize it might be difficult to do at the individual level, I think we can look at these things from a macro lens, and infer that these things exist.

Aristocatt - Could you please define what you mean by "systemic racism?" Some racist assholes in positions of power? Racism in legislation and the laws themselves? What?

If there is statistical data which shows that racial differences occur for IDENTICLE crimes where the perps also have identical prior arrest records, please supply it! Given that it seems black looking Americans commit much more crime per capita than whites it stands to reason black looking perps might well receive stiffer sentences due to their having lengthier prior arrest/criminality records, for example.

Inferring racism seems VERY unwise where there is no of evidence of racist views held by the accused individual, so yes to that.

(December 29, 2020 at 5:34 pm)Lawz Wrote: Aristocatt - Could you please define what you mean by "systemic racism?" Some racist assholes in positions of power? Racism in legislation and the laws themselves? What?

If there is statistical data which shows that racial differences occur for IDENTICLE crimes where the perps also have identical prior arrest records, please supply it! Given that it seems black looking Americans commit much more crime per capita than whites it stands to reason black looking perps might well receive stiffer sentences due to their having lengthier prior arrest/criminality records, for example.

Inferring racism seems VERY unwise where there is no of evidence of racist views held by the accused individual, so yes to that.

If bullshit could fly, that post would be an airport.

Boru

Free to the public...In red is the really important part for the bar you have set.

Quote:Using rich data linking federal cases from arrest through to sentencing, we find that initial case and defendant characteristics, including arrest offense and criminal history, can explain most of the large raw racial disparity in federal sentences, but significant gaps remain. Across the distribution, blacks receive sentences that are almost 10 percent longer than those of comparable whites arrested for the same crimes. Most of this disparity can be explained by prosecutors’ initial charging decisions, particularly the filing of charges carrying mandatory minimum sentences. Ceteris paribus, the odds of black arrestees facing such a charge are 1.75 times higher than those of white arrestees.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/vie...t=articles

Much more comprehensive if you have a springer or jstor account to read the whole thing.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/23367476?seq=1

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(December 29, 2020 at 5:34 pm)Lawz Wrote: Inferring racism seems VERY unwise where there is no of evidence of racist views held by the accused individual, so yes to that.

Okay, so you don't think you can reasonably infer that someone is racist based on their actions as long as they don't explicitly show their racist intent.
But you do think it is understandable(as stated in the original post) for a white woman to accuse a minor of stealing a phone because 15% of the population that shares a skin color with that minor is responsible for 40% of serious crime....

If I am understanding correctly, it sounds like you don't think we can infer the motives and characteristics of an individual by their actions.
But you do think it reasonable to infer them by the actions of other people that share a similar immutable trait with them?

Edit: I am sure this is not exactly what you are trying to get at...so I am wondering if you can help me understand why you made your initial post about 13/50 and juxtapose your willingness to sympathize with the white woman with your unwillingness to recognize that we can infer things about people based on their actions even if they are not explicit about the intent of their actions as it pertains to racism.

This video is obviously from another dimension, where hatred and deep seated animosity rule. It surely isn't from our sunshine and rainbows utopia.

I'll read the linked journal article tomorrow probs, bedtime for me now, thanks for supplying an indepth source.

The racial stereotyping by the woman in the OP, if indeed it occurred, is to be understood as being a contributing factor in her actions, but I very much doubt that was the only factor. We shall see.

It depends what the action is. If she'd assaulted him for no reason, then things would be different. As it is it seems pretty flaming obvious that she genuinely believed he'd stolen her phone, for whatever reasons. It is far from conclusive that "race" played any role at all, as is the case, at risk of repeating myself, with George Floyd.

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I must just add that, as with life in general, call a man a thief and he becomes a thief - so to denote society riddled with deep seated racism (I'm not denying there's a bit), especially where that is not firmly born out by the evidence, seems EXTREMELY unwise. Am I the only one who has noticed a decline in racial harmony since BLM really took off? I doubt it.

(December 29, 2020 at 5:59 pm)Lawz Wrote: I'll read the linked journal article tomorrow probs, bedtime for me now, thanks for supplying an indepth source.

The racial stereotyping by the woman in the OP, if indeed it occurred, is to be understood as being a contributing factor in her actions, but I very much doubt that was the only factor. We shall see.

It depends what the action is. If she'd assaulted him for no reason, then things would be different. As it is it seems pretty flaming obvious that she genuinely believed he'd stolen her phone, for whatever reasons. It is far from conclusive that "race" played any role at all, as is the case, at risk of repeating myself, with George Floyd.

Repeat away - it's what you do.

Don't hurry back.

(December 29, 2020 at 4:36 pm)Lawz Wrote:

(December 29, 2020 at 4:28 pm)Brian37 Wrote: It was, PERIOD!

Where is your evidence for this horrendous, scandalous conclusion? I'm virtually 100% certain you have NONE.

Holy fuck. DAMN YOU ARE DENSE!

Scientists cannot tell you the exact number of raindrops that occur between the start of a hurricane or the end of the hurricane. But they  even have a "cone of uncertainty". But we do know the odds of a hurricane hitting south Florida are far more likely than hitting Anchorage Alaska. 

Blacks and other minorities are akin to hurricanes and South Florida. Whites and hurricanes are akin to hitting New England. Not impossible, but far less likely.

(December 29, 2020 at 5:34 pm)Lawz Wrote: Aristocatt - Could you please define what you mean by "systemic racism?" Some racist assholes in positions of power? Racism in legislation and the laws themselves? What?

If there is statistical data which shows that racial differences occur for IDENTICLE crimes where the perps also have identical prior arrest records, please supply it! Given that it seems black looking Americans commit much more crime per capita than whites it stands to reason black looking perps might well receive stiffer sentences due to their having lengthier prior arrest/criminality records, for example.

Inferring racism seems VERY unwise where there is no of evidence of racist views held by the accused individual, so yes to that.

Really?