(November 1, 2011 at 7:35 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Saving grace is detailed all throughout scripture, including Ephesians 1 and 2, Romans 5, 8, 9, and 11, John 6, and10 to name a few. Common grace is deduced from verses such as Genesis 6:8, Romans 1 and 3, and Acts 10 just to also name a few.

Right I'm seeing predestination mentioned, but no other distinction. Please quote the passage you are referring to.

Quote:Bradford is reigning with Christ today; I assure you it was all worth it.

Prove it.

Quote:God ordains all that comes to pass, whether it be actively or passively.

So why am I being held accountable for your puppeteer-god meddling with my life?

Quote:He does not destroy unbelievers, they are given justice. However, God sees it fit to give even the unbeliever better than they deserve because he is a loving God.

No he's not. I could never be as heartless as to drag people into existence and then create a realm of eternal suffering for them. Sorry you've warped your mind enough to think that's love.

Quote:Christ atoned for people who came before him as well as after him.

Nice dodge, but you haven't answered my question. I'm waiting...

Quote:This commits the fallacy of believing that God wanted to save everyone and failed.

Well you've made it obvious you don't understand sarcasm. I'm fully aware of the monster god described in scriptures, thank you.

Quote:Scripture is quite clear that everyone God wants to be saved has been and will be, and all others were given what they deserved; perfect grace and justice in action.

So the scriptures say. Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens is quite clear that Peter is a mischievous boy who can fly and magically refuses to grow up.

Its Fiction, not Fact.

(November 4, 2011 at 1:44 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: Right I'm seeing predestination mentioned, but no other distinction. Please quote the passage you are referring to.

Huh? You didn’t see all of the passages dealing with “saved by grace through faith” in Ephesians 2? You also didn’t see God granting Noah common grace for 120 years in Genesis 6:8? They are common themes throughout the whole of scripture.

Quote: Prove it.

It says in John 6 that all those the Father gives the son will be raised up on the last day. Bradford came to Christ so logically you would say he was given to Christ by the Father because nobody can come to Christ who was not given to him by the father (also in John 6). Since Bradford was given to Christ by the father he will be lifted up on the last day.

Quote: So why am I being held accountable for your puppeteer-god meddling with my life?

You’re not, you’re held accountable for your rebellion against God’s efficacious will. (Note: I was asked this question directly; this is not meant as preaching).

Quote: No he's not. I could never be as heartless as to drag people into existence and then create a realm of eternal suffering for them. Sorry you've warped your mind enough to think that's love.

Well then, please define love.

Quote: Nice dodge, but you haven't answered my question. I'm waiting...

Could you restate it? I don’t remember which question you are referring to.

Quote: Well you've made it obvious you don't understand sarcasm. I'm fully aware of the monster god described in scriptures, thank you.

I am not aware of any such god, maybe you are looking at a different “scripture” than me.

Quote: So the scriptures say. Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens is quite clear that Peter is a mischievous boy who can fly and magically refuses to grow up.

I don’t believe Peter Pan is ever mentioned in scripture.

Quote: Its Fiction, not Fact.

Peter Pan? Well we agree on something.

(November 4, 2011 at 4:44 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: ...nobody can come to Christ who was not given to him by the father

So the millions of people that died before christ's crucifixion are condemned to hell for all eternity because Adam and Eve ate an apple?

(November 4, 2011 at 7:29 pm)IATIA Wrote: So the millions of people that died before christ's crucifixion are condemned to hell for all eternity because Adam and Eve ate an apple?

No, people trusted in the coming messiah and their sins were atoned for by him as well as people who came after him. This faith though was a gift from God made possible by His saving grace.

What about all the millions of people who died in other continents such as the Americas or Australia who could not have possibly known about his coming?

(November 4, 2011 at 8:14 pm)Darwinian Wrote: What about all the millions of people who died in other continents such as the Americas or Australia who could not have possibly known about his coming?

Speaking of the Americas and Australia, how the heck did all of those people get there in the first place (according to young earthers, that is)?

(November 5, 2011 at 12:30 am)I_Blaspheme Wrote:

(November 4, 2011 at 8:14 pm)Darwinian Wrote: What about all the millions of people who died in other continents such as the Americas or Australia who could not have possibly known about his coming?

Speaking of the Americas and Australia, how the heck did all of those people get there in the first place (according to young earthers, that is)?

Me me me ... I know I know...

goddidit

God created evil for the existence good
There are other reasons

Quote:Nope, it's actually the strongest form of logical reasoning, maybe you should try it out sometime.

Logical reasoning needs to begin from a correct premise.

You have nothing but fables and fairy tales. Your logic always breaks down before Step #1.

(November 5, 2011 at 5:12 pm)moslim Wrote: God created evil for the existence good
There are other reasons

Do you mean in the sense of having two opposites, ie the existence of opposites gives each one meaning?