A universe in which God exists but does not reveal himself would be indistinguishable from a universe in which God does not exist.

I think Occam’s Razor just shaved the barber.

Boru

(June 20, 2021 at 5:34 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: A universe in which God exists but does not reveal himself would be indistinguishable from a universe in which God does not exist.

I think Occam’s Razor just shaved the barber.

Boru

Occam's razor is a useful guide but insufficient as a defeater. Try again.

Quote:Occam's razor is a useful guide but insufficient as a defeater. Try again

Nope, it's more than sufficient as a defeater.Try again

(June 20, 2021 at 7:33 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(June 20, 2021 at 5:34 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: A universe in which God exists but does not reveal himself would be indistinguishable from a universe in which God does not exist.

I think Occam’s Razor just shaved the barber.

Boru

Occam's razor is a useful guide but insufficient as a defeater. Try again.

Not trying to defeat anything, just pointing out that the two universes are indistinguishable, so the simpler explanation - the one without God - is preferred (though not necessarily true).

Boru

Grown human beings yammering on about insufficient defeaters for their favorite comic book characters. Absurd.

(June 20, 2021 at 7:33 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(June 20, 2021 at 5:34 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: A universe in which God exists but does not reveal himself would be indistinguishable from a universe in which God does not exist.

I think Occam’s Razor just shaved the barber.

Boru

Occam's razor is a useful guide but insufficient as a defeater. Try again.

Siri Neo Gibberish Translator, "Wishful thinking is a far better tool than actually trying to figure out what is really going on."

Occam's Razor is a extremely solid guide to put oneself on the correct path to uncovering facts.

How stupid would you be if for example you bought blindly this following claim?

"I Brian37 am dating Angelina Jolie". 

I exist, she exists. But somehow, I think you rightfully dismiss that without much thought. 

There is evidence for Angelina Jolie, that is far more evidence a billion times more evidence than you have for your alleged deity. 

Occam's razor is the principle of considering probability and the attitude that the most likely answer is going to be the one that has the least baggage that is going to be most likely eventually to solve an problem.

Seriously, if I claim I am dating Angelina Jolie, and my argument is, "She is love", or "The world is complex so therefor Angelina Jolie loves me". But I have no pictures of myself with her, I have no physical evidence that I was with her? Are you stupidly going to blindly take my word for it?

Between the choices of a real god, pick any claimed word wide in human history, existing, or, humans simply make them up as a placebo. Between those two choices I think humans make gods up is a much more simple explanation than a all powerful God claim that triggers the problem of infinite regress.

(June 21, 2021 at 12:12 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 20, 2021 at 7:33 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Occam's razor is a useful guide but insufficient as a defeater. Try again.

Siri Neo Gibberish Translator, "Wishful thinking is a far better tool than actually trying to figure out what is really going on."

Occam's Razor is a extremely solid guide to put oneself on the correct path to uncovering facts.

How stupid would you be if for example you bought blindly this following claim?

"I Brian37 am dating Angelina Jolie". 

I exist, she exists. But somehow, I think you rightfully dismiss that without much thought. 

There is evidence for Angelina Jolie, that is far more evidence a billion times more evidence than you have for your alleged deity. 

Occam's razor is the principle of considering probability and the attitude that the most likely answer is going to be the one that has the least baggage that is going to be most likely eventually to solve an problem.

Seriously, if I claim I am dating Angelina Jolie, and my argument is, "She is love", or "The world is complex so therefor Angelina Jolie loves me". But I have no pictures of myself with her, I have no physical evidence that I was with her? Are you stupidly going to blindly take my word for it?

Between the choices of a real god, pick any claimed word wide in human history, existing, or, humans simply make them up as a placebo. Between those two choices I think humans make gods up is a much more simple explanation than a all powerful God claim that triggers the problem of infinite regress.

You dating Ms Jolie is a terrible example of Occam’s Razor. It isn’t supposed to help you dismiss a ludicrous fact out of hand, but to help determine the likeliest explanation for an observed fact by not multiplying entities unnecessarily. Like this:

Observation: Brian37 is dating Angelina Jolie.

Explanation #1: Ms Jolie has legitimately fallen for Brian’s wit, charm, and devastatingly gorgeous face and figure.

Explanation #2: Ms Jolie has suffered a traumatic brain injury and follows Brian around in the expectation that he will explode in a shower of candy.

Occam’s Razor would indicate #2.

Boru

Ouch. Buuuuurn. Lol.

Maybe his example wasn't the best, but I think Brian37 has Occam's razor mostly right.

(June 21, 2021 at 1:54 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Ouch. Buuuuurn. Lol.

Maybe his example wasn't the best, but I think Brian37 has Occam's razor mostly right.

I tend to agree, with the caveat that OR isn’t meant to take evidence into account - it’s more epistemological than empirical.

Boru

(June 15, 2021 at 10:36 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:

(June 15, 2021 at 9:54 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Except that Ephesians 2:4-9 says:

What am I looking for here?

Biblical support that faith in Christ is necessary for salvation.