Quote:It's a lie, of course, that Cardinal Burke hates gays.  I guess leftwingers make that claim because gay sex is an abomination, and this man stands up for what is right.

Calling it and abomination is hating gays 

(August 22, 2021 at 5:33 am)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(August 22, 2021 at 5:29 am)Mashmont Wrote: Of course.  And a just God.

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It's a lie, of course, that Cardinal Burke hates gays.  I guess leftwingers make that claim because gay sex is an abomination.

"Gay sex is an abomination"...

According to an organisation that has actively supported, condoned, and perpetuated torture, genocide, murder, and many other crimes.

And no, it's not a lie that Burke hates gay people.

The RCC has never supported those things.   They endorse the teachings of Jesus.  It is true, however, that some fallible humans have done some bad things, as they do in every organization.

But if bad actions of individuals invalidate a belief for you, then you should be rejecting atheism completely out of hand since no religion can ever hold a candle to the atrocities committed by atheists during the last century.  100 million people murdered.

(August 22, 2021 at 5:37 am)Mashmont Wrote:

(August 22, 2021 at 5:33 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: "Gay sex is an abomination"...

According to an organisation that has actively supported, condoned, and perpetuated torture, genocide, murder, and many other crimes.

And no, it's not a lie that Burke hates gay people.

The RCC has never supported those things.   They endorse the teachings of Jesus.  It is true, however, that some fallible humans have done some bad things, as they do in every organization.

But if bad actions of individuals invalidate a belief for you, then you should be rejecting atheism completely out of hand since no religion can ever hold a candle to the atrocities committed by atheists during the last century.  100 million people murdered.

Another fallacy.

Communism does not equate to atheism.

Though it often does in Christian rhetoric and propaganda.

Yes, the RCC, as an organisation, has supported those things.

Quote:The RCC has never supported those things.   They endorse the teachings of Jesus.  It is true, however, that some fallible humans have done some bad things, as they do in every organization.

Yes they have 

Quote:But if bad actions of individuals invalidate a belief for you, then you should be rejecting atheism completely out of hand since no religion can ever hold a candle to the atrocities committed by atheists during the last century.  100 million people were murdered.

Atheism has never killed a single human being. A nonacceptance of belief deities can't make you kill someone.

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(August 22, 2021 at 5:40 am)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(August 22, 2021 at 5:37 am)Mashmont Wrote: The RCC has never supported those things.   They endorse the teachings of Jesus.  It is true, however, that some fallible humans have done some bad things, as they do in every organization.

But if bad actions of individuals invalidate a belief for you, then you should be rejecting atheism completely out of hand since no religion can ever hold a candle to the atrocities committed by atheists during the last century.  100 million people murdered.

Another fallacy.

Communism does not equate to atheism.

Though it often does in Christian rhetoric and propaganda.

Yes, the RCC, as an organisation, has supported those things.

Nor can Communism even be blamed

(August 22, 2021 at 5:41 am)Helios Wrote:

Quote:The RCC has never supported those things.   They endorse the teachings of Jesus.  It is true, however, that some fallible humans have done some bad things, as they do in every organization.

Yes they have 

Quote:But if bad actions of individuals invalidate a belief for you, then you should be rejecting atheism completely out of hand since no religion can ever hold a candle to the atrocities committed by atheists during the last century.  100 million people were murdered.

Atheism has never killed a single human being. A nonacceptance of belief deities can't make you kill someone.

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(August 22, 2021 at 5:40 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: Another fallacy.

Communism does not equate to atheism.

Though it often does in Christian rhetoric and propaganda.

Yes, the RCC, as an organisation, has supported those things.

Nor can Communism even be blamed

Nope.

What developed in all of those countries was a cult of personality around Mao, Stalin, and others.

Hell, as Hitchens said, North Korea has its own equivalent to the holy trinity.

(August 22, 2021 at 5:40 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: Another fallacy.

Communism does not equate to atheism.

Atheism is a subset of Communism.  Atheism is the official belief of all Communist regimes.  It is why Communist regimes have closed churches and murdered thousands of clergy.

(August 22, 2021 at 5:56 am)Mashmont Wrote:

(August 22, 2021 at 5:40 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: Another fallacy.

Communism does not equate to atheism.

Atheism is a subset of Communism.  Atheism is the official belief of all Communist regimes.  It is why Communist regimes have closed churches and murdered thousands of clergy.

No.

Quote:Atheism is a subset of Communism. 

No, it isn't. Atheism is way older than Communism nor is one a requirement of the other.

Quote: Atheism is the official belief of all Communist regimes.

Irrelevant You can't kill anyone in the name of Atheism. Hell simply saying Atheism is the belief of a group is nonsensical.

Quote:  It is why Communist regimes have closed churches and murdered thousands of clergy.

Yup in the name of authoritarianism, not atheism. You can't kill anyone for atheism. The very idea is absurd.

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Atheism has No doctrines, No ideals, No dogmas, No ideologies, No compulsions, And nothing to kill or die for. It is the rejection of one unsupported claim. Anything else is the fault of something else.

(August 20, 2021 at 7:24 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:For me, God's existence is self-evident. All people would believe if some didn't think evolution/modern science somewhat dispense with the existence of God,

That’s precisely what modern science does - it points out, to anyone who is intellectually prepared to accept it, that your God is a God of the gaps. This particular fallacy is special case of the argument from ignorance. Since you’re not able to grasp a mundane explanation  for a natural phenomenon, you simply ‘goddidit’ and go your merry way. Alternately, you do the same thing when you pounce on something that science has not yet explained.

1000 years ago, it was widely considered that God was the explanation for everything, from the opening of a morning glory to a meteor strike. As science uncovers more and more about how the world wags and what wags it, there is less and less for God to do. You’re desperately clinging to a smaller and smaller God.

Boru

(my bold)

But, even 1000 years ago there were unbelievers proving that a lack of belief is not reliant upon evolution/modern science as @Klorophyll would have us believe.

(August 20, 2021 at 7:24 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:For me, God's existence is self-evident. All people would believe if some didn't think evolution/modern science somewhat dispense with the existence of God,

That’s precisely what modern science does - it points out, to anyone who is intellectually prepared to accept it, that your God is a God of the gaps. This particular fallacy is special case of the argument from ignorance. Since you’re not able to grasp a mundane explanation  for a natural phenomenon, you simply ‘goddidit’ and go your merry way. Alternately, you do the same thing when you pounce on something that science has not yet explained.

1000 years ago, it was widely considered that God was the explanation for everything, from the opening of a morning glory to a meteor strike. As science uncovers more and more about how the world wags and what wags it, there is less and less for God to do. You’re desperately clinging to a smaller and smaller God.

Boru

I don't see it that way at all.  To me, God is not only 100% compatible with science, He IS the ultimate in scientific understanding, something unattainable for humans.  The science we understand is but a tiny percentage of all there is to understand.  God = Science = Truth.   That's why it makes me bristle when leftwing atheists go on about 'science' and say conservative Christians don't believe in it.  We are ALL about it.