Quote:I would beg to differ. What about when you're stopped at a red light, waiting for the light to turn green? You don't know the light will turn green. You expect the light to turn green, but you don't know the light will turn green. There might very well be some kind of malfunction that makes it so the light is stuck on red for hours and hours. You take the light turning green, in a timely fashion, on faith.

That's not faith that's calculated deduction and we factor in the possibility mundane issues like malfunctions will happen. So this is a silly argument.

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Quote:What if you were blind? Then you wouldn't be able to verify the sun's existence. You would just be taking people's word for it, that the sun exists.

Blind people can feel the sun's rays even if they can't see it. So again this is a silly comparison.

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Quote:Both forms of faith, are based on a lack of absolute knowledge.

The lack of absolute knowledge does not make something faith. Certain ideas are better supported than others and to casually lump, all idea's together like that is absurd.

(August 24, 2021 at 3:52 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(August 24, 2021 at 3:38 am)Foxaire Wrote: Incorrect.

Secular faith: I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow.
The empirical evidence is there to verify this as fact.

Religious faith: I have faith that god will ensure the sun rises tomorrow.
There is no evidence that god exists, let alone that he is the reason for the rising of the sun.

What if you were blind? Then you wouldn't be able to verify the sun's existence. You would just be taking people's word for it, that the sun exists.

You can't think of another way that humans can sense the effects of the suns presence or absence?

(August 24, 2021 at 7:33 am)brewer Wrote:

(August 24, 2021 at 3:52 am)Ahriman Wrote: What if you were blind? Then you wouldn't be able to verify the sun's existence. You would just be taking people's word for it, that the sun exists.

You can't think of another way that humans can sense the effects of the suns presence or absence?

Also, most blind people aren't totally blind. Most have some degree of sight.

(August 24, 2021 at 7:33 am)brewer Wrote:

(August 24, 2021 at 3:52 am)Ahriman Wrote: What if you were blind? Then you wouldn't be able to verify the sun's existence. You would just be taking people's word for it, that the sun exists.

You can't think of another way that humans can sense the effects of the suns presence or absence?

Well sure I can, but none of those other ways, besides sight, proves the sun's existence.

"seeing is believing"

Quote:Well sure I can, but none of those other ways, besides sight, proves the sun's existence.

"seeing is believing"

Feeling the sun's rays proves it exists every bit as much as seeing it. And if seeing was believing then all illusionists are gods.

Seeing alone isn't believing. Religious people consistently experience hallucinations. What's needed is empirical evidence.

(August 24, 2021 at 7:57 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(August 24, 2021 at 7:33 am)brewer Wrote: You can't think of another way that humans can sense the effects of the suns presence or absence?

Well sure I can, but none of those other ways, besides sight, proves the sun's existence.

"seeing is believing"

So...... you've seen god.

(August 24, 2021 at 8:00 am)brewer Wrote:

(August 24, 2021 at 7:57 am)Ahriman Wrote: Well sure I can, but none of those other ways, besides sight, proves the sun's existence.

"seeing is believing"

So...... you've seen god.

The transcendent beauty of my dachshund's face, is enough to prove God all on its own.

Quote:The transcendent beauty of my dachshund's face, is enough to prove God all on its own.

So no then 

(August 24, 2021 at 8:04 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(August 24, 2021 at 8:00 am)brewer Wrote: So...... you've seen god.

The transcendent beauty of my dachshund's face, is enough to prove God all on its own.

And if you were blind then you would have no credible evidence for god?