Engineers used master/slave but are moving toward using controller/peripheral.  It's our call.  Don't like it?  Don't get your feelings hurt.

(September 29, 2021 at 2:11 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Perhaps, but not all of society, or even most of it, wants these particular words changed. Only some people want them changed.

If I'm using an ATA cable, one of my drives has to be set to master, and the others to slave.  This is old technology, and it makes no sense to change the names - it just causes confusion to use alternate words.

What is being changed is the names used for new technology.  Master/slave is a stupid naming combination anyway.  You seem to want new technology to use these old terms -- why do you want that?

(September 29, 2021 at 2:07 pm)Soberman921 Wrote: This seems a natural corollary to the issue of gender neutral pronouns which tend to instill rage in many people with whom I agree on a great many other issues. Personally, I have no problem using whatever pronoun makes someone comfortable. It is at best a minor inconvenience to keep their often unique pronoun in mind, and usually comes up only in writing since it's unusual to use someone's pronoun in speaking with them. But for reasons I can't quite fathom, this fires some people up. And from the standpoint of concern for others, it should be a much clearer issue than the master/slave question because with the pronouns, someone has expressed a clear position on what makes them feel comfortable rather than you having to guess or assume, so by using a binary pronoun you are consciously making them uncomfortable. One might argue these people are being unreasonably sensitive, though I have no idea what standard one would apply to reach this conclusion, but the bottom line is "who cares?" If it represents at worst a minor inconvenience to you (and in most cases no inconvenience at all), why not just do it and create a little happiness in the world?

Yeah, this is precisely my reaction.  Its one of those astonishment moments when you realize that the reaction to someone asking to be referred to as him or her can be visceral anger.  What is going on with someone when such a request elicits such a reaction?  What possible reasoning can be offered?  I think this could indicate deeper emotional/psychological issues.

Growing up, I was deeply indoctrinated with proper etiquette when addressing adults.  If I said "yeah" or "hey" to an adult, I was slapped.  We were to address all adults with Mr. or Miss. or whatever the appropriate prefix was, and "sir" or "ma'am" as a response.  It was they who reacted with anger if not addressed properly.  Maybe I should have retorted that it makes them pussies, but I wouldn't have survived that.  This has fallen out of use for the most part (another example of language changing), but for those people, it was extremely important.  Were those people weak?  Hell no!  My grandparents lived through the great depression and 2 wars; they were tough as wrought iron steel.  But to Airhead (ahem, @Ahriman), I guess their desire for a respectful address was weak and limp wristed?  Sounds ridiculous because it is.

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(September 29, 2021 at 2:11 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

Quote: And who/what is supposed to decide that words change?  Humans are the only entities that I know of that use words, so if society decided via consensus that a word needs to change, isn't that evidence that the words are "supposed" to change?

Perhaps, but not all of society, or even most of it, wants these particular words changed. Only some people want them changed.

And you won't ever have unanimous agreement on such things.  But if the majority decide to change it, then that must mean it was "supposed" to change, no?

For that matter, it doesn't require anywhere near a majority to change language.  Most new words or new use of old words begins with just a small number of people and spreads over time.  I'm particularly unimpressed with the way people use the term "decimate" as a synonym for "destroy" or the absolute destruction of something.  This word has ancient historical roots meaning to kill 10% of a group or area (Romans).  I don't remember voting to change the meaning of this word.  I don't remember any discussion about it.  It just happened over time and now this is how people use it.  So, my guess is that you are in for some serious disappointment if you are so bothered by the replacement of a handful of words you don't even know how to use.

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(September 29, 2021 at 2:18 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote:  You seem to want new technology to use these old terms -- why do you want that?

My best guess is that Ahriman is just a 22 year old troll who enjoys injecting idiocy into any conversation.

(September 29, 2021 at 2:25 pm)Spongebob Wrote: Yeah, this is precisely my reaction.  Its one of those astonishment moments when you realize that the reaction to someone asking to be referred to as him or her can be visceral anger.  What is going on with someone when such a request elicits such a reaction?  What possible reasoning can be offered?  I think this could indicate deeper emotional/psychological issues.

Growing up, I was deeply indoctrinated with proper etiquette when addressing adults.  If I said "yeah" or "hey" to an adult, I was slapped.  We were to address all adults with Mr. or Miss. or whatever the appropriate prefix was, and "sir" or "ma'am" as a response.  It was they who reacted with anger if not addressed properly.  Maybe I should have retorted that it makes them pussies, but I wouldn't have survived that.  This has fallen out of use for the most part (another example of language changing), but for those people, it was extremely important.  Were those people weak?  Hell no!  My grandparents lived through the great depression and 2 wars; they were tough as wrought iron steel.  But to Airhead (ahem, @Ahriman), I guess their desire for a respectful address was weak and limp wristed?  Sounds ridiculous because it is.

I agree with you, but I also understand the other side.

Using a different pronoun requires a bit of thought, and some people don't like to think 

Using pronouns can be a sign of "acceptance", and some people don't want to accept that non-binary is a real thing, or they believe that it is somehow left-wing brainwashing.  In some places, there can actually be repercussions, like loss of job, if one doesn't use someone's preferred pronouns.

But as you say, it is just a matter of respecting someone as a person.

(September 29, 2021 at 2:11 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

Quote: And who/what is supposed to decide that words change?  Humans are the only entities that I know of that use words, so if society decided via consensus that a word needs to change, isn't that evidence that the words are "supposed" to change?

Perhaps, but not all of society, or even most of it, wants these particular words changed. Only some people want them changed.

Do you know what a consensus is?

(September 29, 2021 at 2:34 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: Using pronouns can be a sign of "acceptance", and some people don't want to accept that non-binary is a real thing, or they believe that it is somehow left-wing brainwashing.  In some places, there can actually be repercussions, like loss of job, if one doesn't use someone's preferred pronouns.

There's definitely something to the visceral reaction to being told what to do. I don't actually think anyone should lose their job for not using someone's preferred pronouns. It's a matter of respect, courtesy and kindness but those aren't things government, or even businesses, do well in enforcing, especially through draconian means. It just creates backlash. Those are better enforced informally through the social contract we all have with one another.

Perhaps a good metric to determine if a word with negative historical connotations needs to be dropped would be when a significant number of people start objecting to it. So far, I’m unaware of people being offended by master/slave cylinders in brake systems, or master suites re bedrooms.

Boru

(September 29, 2021 at 2:51 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Perhaps a good metric to determine if a word with negative historical connotations needs to be dropped would be when a significant number of people start objecting to it. So far, I’m unaware of people being offended by master/slave cylinders in brake systems, or master suites re bedrooms.

Boru

That is totally reasonable and pretty much how it works as far as I can tell.  A tiny group of people aren't likely to change many minds. What typically happens is that a group of people raise the awareness and other people who understand their reasoning join in whether it affect them directly or not.

(September 29, 2021 at 12:45 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(September 29, 2021 at 12:35 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Who gets to be the arbiter of what is “rightfully offensive” versus “overly sensitive”? 

You?

Perhaps me, but I was thinking more like, a collective of strong individuals, that may or may not include me. 

Lol, okay.