(October 16, 2021 at 7:02 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(October 16, 2021 at 6:38 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Bystanders should all be charged with aiding and abetting.

Completely agree.

Under what section of law?

Warren says the police are not obligated to protect you -
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v...f_Columbia


And you think that civialians are held to a higher standard?

....

Pretty sure that isn' t how the law reads.

Not saying it' s right.

Just the way it IS...

(October 16, 2021 at 9:26 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(October 16, 2021 at 7:02 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Completely agree.

Under what section of law?

The section that says “it pisses off LFC, therefore something must be done about it.” 😛

(October 16, 2021 at 9:26 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(October 16, 2021 at 7:02 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Completely agree.

Under what section of law?

Warren says the police are not obligated to protect you -
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v...f_Columbia


And you think that civialians are held to a higher standard?

....

Pretty sure that isn' t how the law reads.

Not saying it' s right.

Just the way it IS...

Then "to serve and protect" shouldn't be on any police vehicles or property.

And I agree, that's not how it should be.

Perhaps the time of the Judges really IS coming.

"I am the law!"

(October 16, 2021 at 9:26 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(October 16, 2021 at 7:02 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Completely agree.

Under what section of law?

Warren says the police are not obligated to protect you -
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v...f_Columbia


And you think that civialians are held to a higher standard?

....
Found this: 

 Australia[edit]

"Most Australian states and territories have some form of good Samaritan protection. In general, these offer protection if care is made in good faith, and the "good Samaritan" is not impaired by drugs or alcohol. Variations exist between states, from not applying if the "good Samaritan" is the cause of the problem (New South Wales), to applying under all circumstances if the attempt is made in good faith (Victoria).[5]"

"All 50 states and the District of Columbia have some type of Good Samaritan law. The details of good Samaritan laws/acts vary by jurisdiction, including who is protected from liability and under what circumstances.[28]

The 1998 Aviation Medical Assistance Act also provided coverage for "Good Samaritans" while in flight (Section 5b).[29]  "

In some circumstances there can be penalties for failing to help.


Times have changed. When I wore younger man's clothes, I had an uncle who was a physician in California.  He said he would  not stop at an accident. That was because Americans are so litigious that he would not be able to afford mal practice insurance.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

Good Sam laws protect the " helper" if they screw up helping.

As I understand it - 

The penalties applied for not assisting do not cover situations where the helper' s life would be in jeopardy....

This kind of thing disgusts me. I'm in Brian37's league physically in that I'm 5'8", 180 lbs. On top of that, I'm clumsy and have no boxing skills. I do have well above average grappling/wrestling skills so maybe that has an effect on my bravery but I don't think it matters that much.

I absolutely could not stand idly by and watch a woman being raped and do nothing about it. I just couldn't. Call it faith if you must but I would count on someone like myself to be motivated by my own action to back me up. Better yet, I would hope someone with superior physicality like Boru would be shamed into joining in if he was not initially inclined.

At the same time, I have a hard time condemning a coward. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I do wish there were more of us who were less timid but we are what we are. As a Secular Humanist, I believe we will ultimately employ genetic engineering to address our shortcomings.

(October 17, 2021 at 12:48 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Good Sam laws protect the " helper" if they screw up helping.

As I understand it - 

The penalties applied for not assisting do not cover situations where the helper' s life would be in jeopardy....

Back in '91 I was taking Hazardous Waste Operator training. Some of the things that came up were personal responsibility and liability on a scene. There was a tanker carrying glacial acetic acid that was on fire. The firefighters on scene did not approach, and the family sued. The court's decision was for the firefighters, as they can't be required to risk their own lives (though many do).

(October 17, 2021 at 9:45 am)Fireball Wrote:

(October 17, 2021 at 12:48 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Good Sam laws protect the " helper" if they screw up helping.

As I understand it - 

The penalties applied for not assisting do not cover situations where the helper' s life would be in jeopardy....

Back in '91 I was taking Hazardous Waste Operator training. Some of the things that came up were personal responsibility and liability on a scene. There was a tanker carrying glacial acetic acid that was on fire. The firefighters on scene did not approach, and the family sued. The court's decision was for the firefighters, as they can't be required to risk their own lives (though many do).

I think there is always a case by case issue in civilian or professional responding to emergencies. 

In criminal cases, any good defense lawyer is going to argue that the person they are defending feared for their lives and is why that defendant didn't do anything. And while it can be a bullshit defense in many cases, it also can be lagit. 

But even with first responders, like fire/EMT/police, there can also be points in the event where there is simply nothing they can do and have to put their own safety first.

In the case of this subway rape, it is a bit miffing nobody immediately reacted. But I can also understand not getting involved if you are afraid of losing your life and not being around to take care of your own family.

It's apathy. I don't think this inaction is in any way excusable, but this shit happened outside Philly. People are hard. They've probably witnessed so much violence it doesn't elicit the same response as it would in one of us. Also, law enforcement is not a dependable "go to for help and help arrives" thing for everybody.

Furthermore, in some urban environments, calling the cops is not a risk-free affair. Shit can come down on you real hard for doing something like that. Minding your own business is a learned and environmentally reinforced behavior.

Again, not excusing it. Just trying to come up with "guesses why"... since "why?" is the question we're asking. I'm just as bothered by this as anyone else. Maybe even more bothered than some (since apathy involving sexual assault has affected me personally). But people already expressed outrage, so I felt no need to re-express it.

It' s nothing new.

My mention of Kitty Genovese didn' t elicit any response...

Google her.

See what I mean...