(November 2, 2021 at 12:59 pm)Ahriman Wrote: If someone doesn't believe in gods, why would they believe in any other supernatural thing?

If someone didn't believe in the supernatural, it would follow that they don't believe in any gods; but it doesnt' follow the other way around. For example Buddhism doesn't really feature a creator God and belief in lesser godlike beings is optional in some sects. The few Buddhists I've met who would describe themselves as atheists AND believe in reincarnation take the cycle of reincarnation to just be part of the nature of reality, not something invented by a god. Even in theistic versions of Buddhism, the gods themselves are subject to reincarnation.

Not to mention I've met atheists who believe in things like astrology, ghosts, and homeopathy.

My own path to atheism involved increasing skepticism, I stopped believing in Bigfoot and ghosts before I stopped believing in God. Someone else might just not been raised to believe in God in the first place but also not have been raised to be skeptical, or find astrology easier to believe than the gods they've been told about. Maybe someone who believes in ghosts but not God thinks they've seen a ghost.

Could be lots of reasons.

Quote:If someone doesn't believe in gods, why would they believe in any other supernatural thing?

Because the supernatural isn't defined by gods 

Ladies and gentlemen, please don’t devolve this thread into “unicorns “ again. It’s a tired cliche so stick to definitions for now.

(November 2, 2021 at 1:22 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: @GaryAnderson are you asserting that souls cannot exist absent a god or gods? You’re going to need to demonstrate that assertion or else that’s all it is; a bare assertion about two separate claims which also need to be independently demonstrated. Otherwise, you’re just talking out your ass.

What I’m saying is that the answer to the soul and afterlife question come from religious beliefs which include God. So this means that a definition of a true atheist cannot have an opinion on this question because their definition doesn’t allow them to.

(November 2, 2021 at 1:38 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(November 2, 2021 at 1:14 pm)GaryAnderson Wrote: If they believe in other spiritual things which are god-linked than they’re not atheists in the truest sense of the word. Maybe  they’re agnostic atheists. 

Atheists don't believe in any god-linked thing - that's contained in the term.  You..believe..that there are god-linked things, and this is one of them. 

That's all well and good, but a cursory exploration of the range of beliefs about souls and the immaterial and even the supernatural handily demonstrates that it's not actually indicative of being a god believer to believe in those other things, nor is it neccesary to believe in the immaterial or the supernatural to believe in gods or souls.  The abrahamic faiths started out as a belief in materialistic gods and souls, for example.  Sounds crazy to you, today...you clearly never even imagined as much given your insistence on conflating those beliefs....but there you have it.

Quote:I don’t understand what you’re saying here and you’re confusing me a bit. Atheism is about belief in Gods?

Correct, that's all it's about.  What the term explicitly refers to.  Whether a person holds a belief in any gods.  That's what everyone has been trying to explain to you repeatedly - but I was commenting more on your assertion of the rule of opinions, there.  

Unless a person shares a belief they don't get to have an opinion?  Well..you're not an atheist..but you appear to have opinions about atheism.  Follow your own rules, or save yourself the breath insisting that others do.

Weak shit about work, too.  Didn't seem to get in the way of you saying batshit things to us, but now that you've said em you're just too busy and don't understand anything?

WHAT? What are you saying. Atheism is about beliefs in God? Hahah. Wow never heard this one before and you’re definitely a minority in your sect.

(November 2, 2021 at 1:39 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(November 2, 2021 at 1:14 pm)GaryAnderson Wrote: But souls and the afterlife are always linked to different Gods and religions which is something that the definition of atheism doesn’t allow. 
So maybe you’re an agnostic atheist?

Well then don’t describe yourself as an atheist. Maybe agonist atheist?

That wooshing sound you hear is the point going over your head.  There is no legitimate reason I would need to act as you seem to think that I must.  Why would I?

In general understanding, there is nothing about the concepts of a soul and an afterlife that requires that they be linked to a god; so the fact that for some god-believers they are linked is a red herring.

And for your information, a few years ago I was a Shakta Hindu who believed in the goddess Kali, but did not have a belief in souls or an afterlife.  So, no, they aren't "always" linked.

Okay so if the Goddess Kali doesn’t have an answer on this but other beliefs which include a God, do.
You’ve defined yourself as an atheist if I remember correctly, so your position doesn’t allow for any speculation on my questions which derives from a belief system (in Gods).

(November 2, 2021 at 2:01 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 1, 2021 at 6:05 pm)GaryAnderson Wrote: Hello. I’m new here. I’m a believer in God. In Jesus more specifically. 
In this topic I’d like to discuss some definitions and where this leads you as a person. 

Can you please describe what and where you are in a belief system? Or no belief system? Or lack of belief?

Once you’ve answered that, can you please answer the following: What can you tell me about souls and the existence of an afterlife?

Thank you.

I really don't like atheists using "ism" referring to the word "atheist". We don't have sects even though we are diverse and can have different views, but we are not a religion.

There is no such thing as a soul, we(the individual), what we call our personalities are merely our brains in motion. Once the brain dies, you die. 

How did life feel to you before you were born? That is exactly how life will feel to you after you die.

Ok so you’re a materialist. Cool. Nice to meet you.

(November 2, 2021 at 2:45 pm)brewer Wrote: @GaryAnderson In my opinion it's looking like this thread to discover the forums atheist "sects" is probably not accomplishing what you intended. Maybe it's time to move on to a new subject.

You kidding? I discovered 4 sects so far! 4! One guy says Atheism is a belief in Gods. 😂

I have trouble believing that you honestly think a valid translation of Nudger's statement is 'atheism is a belief in gods'.

(November 2, 2021 at 4:44 pm)GaryAnderson Wrote: You kidding? I discovered 4 sects so far! 4! One guy says Atheism is a belief in Gods. 😂

What are these sects of atheism?

Which person said an atheist believes in gods?

And I discovered an extra sect of religious asshats.

(November 2, 2021 at 4:49 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: I have trouble believing that you honestly think a valid translation of Nudger's statement is 'atheism is belief in gods'.

Can you translate it for me? How do you interpret it?

(November 2, 2021 at 4:44 pm)GaryAnderson Wrote: Ladies and gentlemen, please don’t devolve this thread into “unicorns “ again. It’s a tired cliche so stick to definitions for now.

(November 2, 2021 at 2:45 pm)brewer Wrote: @GaryAnderson In my opinion it's looking like this thread to discover the forums atheist "sects" is probably not accomplishing what you intended. Maybe it's time to move on to a new subject.

You kidding? I discovered 4 sects so far! 4! One guy says Atheism is a belief in Gods. 😂

OMFG. How about Leprechauns? Superman? Aliens? Fairys? Zeus?

Glad you're enjoying it though surprised that intellectually it takes so little.

(November 2, 2021 at 4:51 pm)GaryAnderson Wrote:

(November 2, 2021 at 4:49 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: I have trouble believing that you honestly think a valid translation of Nudger's statement is 'atheism is belief in gods'.

Can you translate it for me? How do you interpret it?

See, when someone says something is about something, it's not the same as sayting that something IS the thing it's about. A book about Paris isn't Paris. Atheism is about gods, because it's the position of not believing in any.

(November 2, 2021 at 4:50 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(November 2, 2021 at 4:44 pm)GaryAnderson Wrote: You kidding? I discovered 4 sects so far! 4! One guy says Atheism is a belief in Gods. 😂

What are these sects of atheism?

Which person said an atheist believes in gods?

Okay so basically here’s what we have so far in this topic:

1. We have atheists - the dictionary definition of the word. Some of them are a bit confused as to what their definition allows them to say in regards to existential questions linked to God(s).
2. We have agonist atheist - the dictionary definition of the words. These folks are open minded.
3. We have meat machines - these are atheists who are also known as materialists and deny VERY HARD the existence of anything immaterial or spiritual.
4. We also have one guy who says “Atheism is a belief in Gods” 😂