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RE: The Ownership of Science
November 3, 2021 at 11:51 am
(This post was last modified: November 3, 2021 at 11:54 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 3, 2021 at 11:33 am)GaryAnderson Wrote: (November 3, 2021 at 11:22 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Do philosophy and justified belief depend on sound premises? Isn't that what science is for?
Alot of people might suspect that you're spooling up some god of the gaps - but...personally, I don't know if it fits when you have to carve the hole yourself. I really have a hard time understanding you by the way. Lol. Philosophy will use science and take a leap of faith to attempt to answer existential questions. I bet you have a really hard time understanding alot of things, given your comments in thread. Is that what you think philosophy is all about? Taking leaps of faith - that's how it's done?
That's what it means, for example, to prove something?
That's a wonderful bit of voluntary information about how you see things - but do you think that philosophy and justified belief depend on sound premises, or that science is a way of generating those premises which either do, or should, inform us? Is there any problem, for example, in you or your hypothetical theist having gotten the relationship between life and the universe not just wrong, but entirely backwards..on the facts?
Does that have any effect on some belief which depends on that misunderstanding?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Ownership of Science
November 3, 2021 at 11:55 am
(November 3, 2021 at 11:49 am)GaryAnderson Wrote: (November 3, 2021 at 11:45 am)Jehanne Wrote: If God exists and spontaneously heals an adult amputee, then, yes, such would be subject to scientific investigation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Calanda
We will discuss miracles and personal testimonies in another topic. 
Do you have any problems with anybody using science to support their beliefs?
No.
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RE: The Ownership of Science
November 3, 2021 at 11:55 am
(November 3, 2021 at 11:49 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: (November 3, 2021 at 11:35 am)GaryAnderson Wrote: Yes it’s about who “owns” science. Do you have any problems with philosophers using science to answer existential questions?
We seem to be changing the subject.
When it comes to existential questions, people usually answer them for themselves. Like "What's your purpose in life?" - it's not up to Francis Fukuyama or Deepak Chopra or Pope Francis to answer but everyone for themselves individually. But people WILL use some scientific facts to answer existential questions. This is the point. Do you have any problems with anyone doing this or no?
(November 3, 2021 at 11:51 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: (November 3, 2021 at 11:33 am)GaryAnderson Wrote: I really have a hard time understanding you by the way. Lol. Philosophy will use science and take a leap of faith to attempt to answer existential questions. I bet you have a really hard time understanding alot of things, given your comments in thread. Is that what you think philosophy is all about? Taking leaps of faith - that's how it's done?
That's what it means, for example, to prove something? Yes that’s exactly what it means! Michio Kaku says that there’s a multiverse. Nick Bostrom, says that we live in a simulated reality.
Theists say that God created the universe because it’s fine-tuned for life.
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RE: The Ownership of Science
November 3, 2021 at 11:55 am
(This post was last modified: November 3, 2021 at 11:56 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Well, there we go. Straight from a failed to launch god of the gaps into a doomed tu qoque.
I think that scientists and philosophers both would disagree with your appraisal in this regard.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Ownership of Science
November 3, 2021 at 11:57 am
(November 3, 2021 at 11:55 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Well, there we go. Straight from a failed to launch god of the gaps into a doomed tu qoque.
I think that scientists and philosophers both would disagree with your appraisal in this regard.
What’s there to disagree? I’m stating their beliefs on existential questions.
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RE: The Ownership of Science
November 3, 2021 at 12:02 pm
(November 3, 2021 at 11:55 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Well, there we go. Straight from a failed to launch god of the gaps into a doomed tu qoque.
I think that scientists and philosophers both would disagree with your appraisal in this regard.
That there is a God who created the finely tuned Universe is, and always will be, a possibility; problem is that such a proposition is an inherently untestable hypothesis, and as other naturalistic explanations (multiverse) exist, via Occam's Razor (the scientific principle of parsimony), the naturalistic models (which are testable) are to be preferred.
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RE: The Ownership of Science
November 3, 2021 at 12:06 pm
(November 3, 2021 at 12:02 pm)Jehanne Wrote: (November 3, 2021 at 11:55 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Well, there we go. Straight from a failed to launch god of the gaps into a doomed tu qoque.
I think that scientists and philosophers both would disagree with your appraisal in this regard.
That there is a God who created the finely tuned Universe is, and always will be, a possibility; problem is that such a proposition is an inherently untestable hypothesis, and as other naturalistic explanations (multiverse) exist, via Occam's Razor (the scientific principle of parsimony), the naturalistic models (which are testable) are to be preferred. This is correct. None of these things will be proven for as long as humanity exists. Which is why the question is: Does anybody here have any problems with people using science to take a leap of faith and answer existential “why-s”?
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RE: The Ownership of Science
November 3, 2021 at 12:10 pm
(November 3, 2021 at 11:55 am)GaryAnderson Wrote: (November 3, 2021 at 11:49 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: We seem to be changing the subject.
When it comes to existential questions, people usually answer them for themselves. Like "What's your purpose in life?" - it's not up to Francis Fukuyama or Deepak Chopra or Pope Francis to answer but everyone for themselves individually. But people WILL use some scientific facts to answer existential questions. This is the point. Do you have any problems with anyone doing this or no?
(November 3, 2021 at 11:51 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I bet you have a really hard time understanding alot of things, given your comments in thread. Is that what you think philosophy is all about? Taking leaps of faith - that's how it's done?
That's what it means, for example, to prove something? Yes that’s exactly what it means! Michio Kaku says that there’s a multiverse. Nick Bostrom, says that we live in a simulated reality.
Theists say that God created the universe because it’s fine-tuned for life.
"Fine tuned for life" is the biggest joke argument theists make for the existence of a God. I once had a Jewish co worker who knew I was an atheist, and we were outside the pizza joint we worked at one night taking a break, and he was miffed that I didn't believe in a god, and he pointed to the clear nighttime sky and the pretty stars and said, "Isn't that proof that God exists?". I responded, "Yea, it is so pretty. Ok, take a space shuttle up into orbit, take a space walk and take your helmet off, you'll find out how "fine tuned" the universe is for humans."
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RE: The Ownership of Science
November 3, 2021 at 12:10 pm
(This post was last modified: November 3, 2021 at 12:10 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You don't realize how the first part of the sentence is incoherent with respect to the second - but I want to point out that you mis-titled this thread.
What you really wanted to know was who owned faithing. Have at it, it's all yours?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Ownership of Science
November 3, 2021 at 12:11 pm
Maybe you should be addressing the logical mistakes pointed out to you in your first thread before you move on to a new one. Just an idea.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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