(November 6, 2021 at 10:46 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: More partial to Plotinus myself but still curious to see where the discussion leads.

So, just out of interest, and I'll try not to go off-topic long (fao vulc ), is Plotinus related to all of this (ie Aquinas etc), or something completely different? I have to say, I've never heard of him, but if you'd recommend reading him, either for the sake of Aquinas or for other reasons, I'll happily add him to my ever-growing reading list

My favorite literature professor had a poster that hung over his door:

"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be ignited." --Plotinus

That's pretty much the only Plotinus that I know. I've never read any of his works. But that quote is fucking awesome.

(November 8, 2021 at 9:46 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: My favorite literature professor had a poster than hung over his door:

"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be ignited." --Plotinus

That's pretty much the only Plotinus that I know. I've never read any of his works. But that quote is fucking awesome.

I definitely get the vessel part... cos our capacity to learn or absorb seems to be pretty much limitless... but much less clear on what the fire might be referring to, unless it's perhaps something like the flux we've been talking about before... but sounds like probably not since the flux of sensation etc is not really something we ignite ourselves (ie it's already lit ). Obviously that's just my first impression/interpretation of it, but yeah, I agree it sounds a pretty cool quote and I'm curious to see how you and Neo interpret it. I guess it just means curiosity?

A filled vessel is a static thing. The flame is an active, alive, and dynamic thing.

(November 8, 2021 at 10:03 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: A filled vessel is a static thing. The flame is an active, alive, and dynamic thing.

Fair enough.... seems similar to what I was saying but also different. Anyhoo, I'll call it a night now, so thanks for the chat, and night night

Swedenborg is the mystic side of Plotinus with whom I sympathize. We all arise out of the One to which every thing returns.

(November 8, 2021 at 7:30 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(November 8, 2021 at 7:00 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Audible has a dramatic reading of The Republic, which is fantastic.  It's a bit pricey at $24.99, but, you could always join, get your free book, and then quit!  (What would Plato say to this scheming??)

So what do you think of it?

I loved the dramatic reading!  As for The Republic, well, it was way ahead of its time, but, quite scary in terms of some of its propositions.  I liked the suggestion about organized physical education (i.e., "gym class", I suppose).  Maybe our society would not be so obese if the State would mandate such for all citizens.

I clearly see the value of understanding Plato on his own terms...At the same time, when I read ancient and Medieval philosophy, my modern personal sensibilities want to constantly reinterpret what is in the text with what seems relevant to my life at the moment. Serious reflection on issues of philosophy seems useful for practicing critical thinking skills but more practically is also learning really useful ways to categorize things. For example in one dialog Socrates makes a big deal about the difference between gymnastics, which produces real health as opposed to cosmetics, which produces the apparent health. My personal perspective mentally translates this into the difference between presentation and authenticity. IMHO the Scholastic distinction between accidental and essential needs some updating, too. Perhaps having something to do with supervenience.