(February 3, 2022 at 3:14 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(February 3, 2022 at 3:07 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Someone else eating doughnuts and not exercising doesn’t put me at any particular risk. Other people drinking and smoking DO pose a risk to me, which is why precisely why there are limits imposed on those behaviours. You can’t smoke in a restaurant or on an airplane. You can’t drink and drive.

Try harder.

Boru

The point went right over your head, Boru. Everyone is getting covid, no matter how many people take the vaccine, therefore you are not going to be protected from covid by other people taking the vax, since we're all getting covid anyways, as Fauci says.

And everyone’s going to eventually die, so we can suspend the laws that prohibit drunk driving.

Ffs.

Boru

(February 3, 2022 at 5:46 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(February 3, 2022 at 4:04 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: Yes, Rev. Rye, you are right because those are the relevant points. Everyone is going to get covid and the narrative is crumbling. You don't think there's going to be a long term benefit in everyone getting covid, as in some level of herd immunity?

I think the most long term benefit comes with people taking precautions before they get COVID so people don't die needlessly. And also not playing "SHOUTING IDIOT whispering sensible person" about the COVID vaccine like you've been doing would also be good. Don't know what "SHOUTING IDIOT whispering sensible person" is? Well, let this exploration of this technique guide you (and the elaboration on the term starts about 37 minutes in, though the rest of the video is leading up to it):



At least, to your credit, I've seen other forumites try this tactic and not even bother with the "whispering sensible person" part of the tactic.

I watched your video and I see what you're getting at, but I don't believe that is me. I've definitely seen enough of Tim Pool to see that he pretty clearly seems to be playing a character, and he's a pretty big grifter. Who knows what he really believes. The clickbaity topics he makes videos on are just to get more views and therefore more donations imo, and it seems to be working out for him, so why stop I guess.

I'm not doing the same thing Tim is doing. I'm siding with all of the scientists and doctors who say there is still more to learn about the vaccines, and that this is an evolving situation, and better information will be known to us as time goes on. "I don't know" is not always a bad answer, and I don't mind saying I don't know from time to time when appropriate. It shows humility. And yes, the thing I'm really concerned about is our civil liberties, because once we lose those, I don't think we're going to be getting them back once the pandemic is over with. We lose them for good imo, which is why I'm louder about this. There's already loads of people here talking about people getting sick. I don't need to be one more voice virtue signaling about that. There's enough of that already. I'm one of the few talking about civil liberties and people's rights, as these are going to be the lasting impacts of the pandemic, and therefore this has been my focus.

(February 3, 2022 at 2:55 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(February 2, 2022 at 7:09 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Prohibition is an absolutely ignorant thing to compare vaccine mandates too.  Grasping...grasping at straws, and missing completely.

He ran out of arguments a long time ago...now he's just waving his ignorant troll banner.

Prohibition is actually a fantastic example, and a comparison does not mean that the two things have to be exactly the same. Your argument since the vaccine came out was that young people need to be forced to take it to protect the old, but now you're moving the goalposts when we find out everyone's going to get covid anyways and your original position and argument no longer applies, because it's collapsed into a million pieces with the emergence of Omicron. We don't force good health on people. That's not how our society works. People can drink all the booze they want. They can shove their face with donuts all day long until they die. They can choose not to get any exercise. They can choose to chain smoke cigarettes all day long until they die at the age of 50 from cancer. It's called personal responsibility, and the Supreme Court ruled that Biden's vaccine mandates are invalid. You don't get to save people that don't want to be saved. Maybe that's how things work in the superhero movies you watch and sport as your avatar, but that's not real life. Come back to real life, AWTY.

Oh, please, explain real life to me.

(February 3, 2022 at 7:19 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

(February 3, 2022 at 5:46 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: I think the most long term benefit comes with people taking precautions before they get COVID so people don't die needlessly. And also not playing "SHOUTING IDIOT whispering sensible person" about the COVID vaccine like you've been doing would also be good. Don't know what "SHOUTING IDIOT whispering sensible person" is? Well, let this exploration of this technique guide you (and the elaboration on the term starts about 37 minutes in, though the rest of the video is leading up to it):



At least, to your credit, I've seen other forumites try this tactic and not even bother with the "whispering sensible person" part of the tactic.

I watched your video and I see what you're getting at, but I don't believe that is me. I've definitely seen enough of Tim Pool to see that he pretty clearly seems to be playing a character, and he's a pretty big grifter. Who knows what he really believes. The clickbaity topics he makes videos on are just to get more views and therefore more donations imo, and it seems to be working out for him, so why stop I guess.

I'm not doing the same thing Tim is doing. I'm siding with all of the scientists and doctors who say there is still more to learn about the vaccines, and that this is an evolving situation, and better information will be known to us as time goes on. "I don't know" is not always a bad answer, and I don't mind saying I don't know from time to time when appropriate. It shows humility. And yes, the thing I'm really concerned about is our civil liberties, because once we lose those, I don't think we're going to be getting them back once the pandemic is over with. We lose them for good imo, which is why I'm louder about this. There's already loads of people here talking about people getting sick. I don't need to be one more voice virtue signaling about that. There's enough of that already. I'm one of the few talking about civil liberties and people's rights, as these are going to be the lasting impacts of the pandemic, and therefore this has been my focus.

If you're siding with "all those scientists," bear in mind that that "all" is, by all accounts, a slim minority.

And what civil liberties do you actually think will be curtailed when this is all over? Do you think that governments are going to make people stay six feet apart just for the lulz? Or is it just your concern that the powers that be are going to take less shit from anti-vaxxers than they did in 2019?

And if the "SHOUTING IDIOT whispering sensible person" technique doesn't apply to your rhetoric about the vaccines, that's only because you frequently forget to do the "whispering sensible person." You constantly make arguments downplaying the usefulness of the vaccines, act like the few scientists who don't think the COVID vaccine is good trump the majority that does, and decry the poor treatment those who refuse the jab tend to get, while only occasionally mentioning that you treat them as Darwin Award winners.

Quote: I'm siding with all of the scientists and doctors who say there is still more to learn about the vaccines

No your siding with quacks and lunatics who are wrong 

---

(February 3, 2022 at 5:48 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(February 3, 2022 at 3:14 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: The point went right over your head, Boru. Everyone is getting covid, no matter how many people take the vaccine, therefore you are not going to be protected from covid by other people taking the vax, since we're all getting covid anyways, as Fauci says.

And everyone’s going to eventually die, so we can suspend the laws that prohibit drunk driving.

Ffs.

Boru

Everyones going to die anyway so why have health and safety standards in food and medicine as Rye already pointed out Fauci also says getting the vaccine protects from worst outcomes communally just like bans on smoking in public or drunk driving

---

(February 3, 2022 at 8:08 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(February 3, 2022 at 2:55 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: Prohibition is actually a fantastic example, and a comparison does not mean that the two things have to be exactly the same. Your argument since the vaccine came out was that young people need to be forced to take it to protect the old, but now you're moving the goalposts when we find out everyone's going to get covid anyways and your original position and argument no longer applies, because it's collapsed into a million pieces with the emergence of Omicron. We don't force good health on people. That's not how our society works. People can drink all the booze they want. They can shove their face with donuts all day long until they die. They can choose not to get any exercise. They can choose to chain smoke cigarettes all day long until they die at the age of 50 from cancer. It's called personal responsibility, and the Supreme Court ruled that Biden's vaccine mandates are invalid. You don't get to save people that don't want to be saved. Maybe that's how things work in the superhero movies you watch and sport as your avatar, but that's not real life. Come back to real life, AWTY.

Oh, please, explain real life to me.

Of course, she overlooks none of those things are spreadable and yes we do put restrictions on the social harmful results of those behaviors, and imagine thinking a group of judges is better suited to determine health policies than actual doctors. Also, the so-called " narrative " has not collapsed in the slightest now have goalposts have been moved as grandma is still safer if kids are vaccinated everyone is safer if we are all vaccinated. And we do save people who don't want to be saved all the time a firefighter isn't going to leave people in a burning building simply because they don't want to be saved and comes with the ability to see how your actions effect others what IA is pushing is personnel irresponsibility plain and simple.

And if we're so concerned about the opinion of judges. How about this one.

Quote:"When we are wise, we know not to displace the judgments of experts, acting within the sphere Congress marked out and under Presidential control, to deal with emergency conditions," they wrote. "Today, we are not wise. In the face of a still-raging pandemic, this Court tells the agency charged with protecting worker safety that it may not do so in all the workplaces needed. As disease and death continue to mount, this Court tells the agency that it cannot respond in the most effective way possible."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/13/politics/...index.html

---

Also if we're basing opinions on quotes from Fauci how about this one 

Quote:Fauci defended Woodcock’s remarks in a COVID-19 briefing Wednesday saying Woodcock did not mean to imply “most of us were ultimately going to get sick with omicron.”

“Remember, she was talking about the data that we all showed about the extraordinary effect and dichotomy between people who get omicron who get vaccinated and boosted how well they are protected against hospitalization, and death,” Fauci said.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/health/cor...-everyone/

Oh and a minor and important  correction 

Quote:Of course, she overlooks none of those things are spreadable and yes we do put restrictions on the social harmful results of those behaviors, and imagine thinking a group of judges is better suited to determine health policies than actual doctors. Also, the so-called " narrative " has not collapsed in the slightest nor have any goalposts been moved as grandma is still safer if kids are vaccinated everyone is safer if we are all vaccinated. And we do save people who don't want to be saved all the time a firefighter isn't going to leave people in a burning building simply because they don't want to be saved and personnel responsibility comes with the ability to see how your actions affect others what IA is pushing is personnel irresponsibility plain and simple.

And if we're so concerned about the opinion of judges. How about this one.

Quote:Everyones going to die anyway so why have health and safety standards in food and medicine as Rye already pointed out Fauci also says getting the vaccine protects from  the worst outcomes communally just like bans on smoking in public or drunk driving

Omicron reducing intensive care admissions.

Worth noting about that video: he starts the description with "Big time, (at least in the UK, not so much in the US.)" And why is Omicron reducing intensive care admissions in the UK, but not the US? Because it turns out that the relatively small difference between the vaccination rates between nations like the US and the UK manages to translate into a big difference in severe cases.

And despite looking into John Campbell's history and finding that he has a tendency to make some very dodgy statements about vaccines, he at least acknowledges that they are a big help in this area, although it's unfortunate that, while the bulk of the video involves looking over this report, he never shows this table:


So, just because things are looking up in Britain doesn't mean the Yanks should become complacent.

(February 4, 2022 at 6:59 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Worth noting about that video: he starts the description with "Big time, (at least in the UK, not so much in the US.)" And why is Omicron reducing intensive care admissions in the UK, but not the US? Because it turns out that the relatively small difference between the vaccination rates between nations like the US and the UK manages to translate into a big difference in severe cases.

And despite looking into John Campbell's history and finding that he has a tendency to make some very dodgy statements about vaccines, he at least acknowledges that they are a big help in this area, although it's unfortunate that, while the bulk of the video involves looking over this report, he never shows this table:


So, just because things are looking up in Britain doesn't mean the Yanks should become complacent.

Yeah, I wouldn’t trust Campbell’s conclusions overmuch. He is a veritable font of mis- and disinformation, and doesn’t appear to really understand the data he cites.

Boru

The first time I ever heard of him was when I clicked on this video to wonder who the fuck he even was. And it looks like, while he seems to have started off with good intentions, he seems to have made some seriously questionable errors recently. Hell, even in the video, he points out that there seems to be a disproportionate number of triple-vaxxed people in the ICU, but ignores the chart I found right above it and reposted here that points out that it's overwhelmingly the unvaccinated who end up going there. But he still points out that the vaccine is helping. But this seems less like he's trying to explain the nuances of a complicated situation and more like he doesn't quite get what he's talking about.