(February 3, 2022 at 9:07 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: You should really do a little research on basic economics before asking staccato dumb questions that might sound cleverly rhetorical.

Power system economics is more topical, but basic economics will show you well enough why those questions are idiotic.

I would take the time to explain to you why.    But your tone suggest you do not ask in good faith.  Rather you are one of those supremely ignorant conservatives who thinks what he heard on conservative blogosphere is enough to enable him to outsmart people who are actually, like, not dumb.

I wasn't trying to upset you. I was wondering what your position was.

(February 3, 2022 at 12:59 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: When CFL and LED bulbs advertise that I will save $$$$ by using these bulbs, I am not sure if that is true.

They will over incandescent.  The difference between cfl and led (in $$$) is lower - and led takes the most time to pay back - obvs.  You could quantify exactly how much by referring to your local rates.

(February 4, 2022 at 11:52 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(February 3, 2022 at 12:59 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: When CFL and LED bulbs advertise that I will save $$$$ by using these bulbs, I am not sure if that is true.

They will over incandescent.  The difference between cfl and led (in $$$) is lower - and led takes the most time to pay back - obvs.  You could quantify exactly how much by referring to your local rates.

I wasn't talking about the price difference of the Bulbs (incandescent vs the rest).

Let's create a hypothetical situation:
Just pretend that all these bulbs are the same price.
Let's also pretend that it is always summer.
If I use these CFL or LED, would it use less joules? Yes.
Would it allow me to save $$$$? I think it depends.

If I am the only one that is using less power, then my bill will be reduced.
If everyone uses less power, the Power Company will notice that suddenly, there is less money coming in.
The Power Company has employees, buildings, expenses. They might have to compensate by increasing the price of electricity.
Or maybe they can fire some employees, abandon some buildings. Somethings got to be cut or the price of electricity has to go up to compensate, so that the Company can pay their employees.

Another example would be gasoline efficient cars. Sure, If I am the only one who invents my own personal super efficient engine + lightweight car, I do save $$$$.
But if everyone does the same, the petrol company is going to notice the large reduction.
What would be the smart thing for the Petrol company to do? Reduce the gasoline prices bc they think more would sell?
What if more doesn’t sell? How long can the Petrol company survive with reduced prices?

The logical thing to do is increase prices. (Unless if you can cut something, like fire employees, close some buildings, cut off the fat).

Again - yes, you'll save cash, but it's offset by the cost of the bulbs. I think it takes something like a year to offset an led here, with the rates we pay, four months for cfls. The main argument for leds being that they're not cfls...or you want brighter lights at comparable use-cost.

Here in the us, delivery rates are regulated - a utility company would have to go through a special proceeding to make the case for a price increase or if they were going to fold. That said...if a company could and did raise it's prices in the face of reduced demand, you would still be saving..and saving more, on what the energy would cost you running an incandescent at that now higher rate. I'm not sure I understand the question. If you save money at a lower rate, you save more at a higher rate. Numbers, how they work, etc.

(February 5, 2022 at 5:03 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Again - yes, you'll save cash, but it's offset by the cost of the bulbs.  I think it takes something like a year to offset an led here, with the rates we pay, four months for cfls.  The main argument for leds being that they're not cfls...or you want brighter lights at comparable use-cost.  

Here in the us, delivery rates are regulated - a utility company would have to go through a special proceeding to make the case for a price increase or if they were going to fold.  That said...if a company could and did raise it's prices in the face of reduced demand, you would still be saving..and saving more, on what the energy would cost you running an incandescent at that now higher rate.  I'm not sure I understand the question.  If you save money at a lower rate, you save more at a higher rate.  Numbers, how they work, etc.

I think that you are introducing concepts from the real world, such as “The Power Company is not allowed to increase rates in the USA unless they do X” and also that the initial cost of a LED bulb is high but you make up for it down the line.

That stuff muddies the concept that I was trying to introduce here.

Right, so more what if. Well, if we're zeroing out the cost of the bulbs and all of the various agreements that utility companies have made with govenments - and assuming they just jacked their rates up to meet some profitability mark - then...yes, you will save with cfl or led - and save even more than you would now, or in the real world.