(June 15, 2023 at 9:33 am)Angrboda Wrote: Apparently, Jesus' bodily resurrection wasn't a miracle.  TIL.  

And the purpose of Jesus' resurrection was to cement his claim being the son of god again giving him the authority to relay the new covenant/message of God.

(June 13, 2023 at 12:40 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 13, 2023 at 9:42 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: I know this was directed at h4m4n, but: You believe it doesn't apply, but if Jesus is fictional then it does. I was born, Sherlock Holmes was invented. Not asking you to agree, just want to make sure you understand where  h4m4n is coming from. The idea was literally unthinkable to me when I was a believer.

Not to be a grammar nazi but this question it still doesn't apply. as Sherlock Holmes was never a fleshed out/real person. Currently and in the time of Christ human beings can not be created by anyone but God. Even if you were to clone someone you are not inventing a person. As it is not possible to creat or invent someone out of spare or newly forged parts.. If you wanted to ask when did Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote "a study in scarlet ." or when did he first create The character of Sherlock Homes. This will get you the information you seek.

Like wise if you want to question the validity of the existence of Jesus then ask when was Jesus supposed to have been born. If you frame your question assuming the answer then you are setting up a logical fallacy ([i]circulus in demonstrando[/i]). If you are intentionally doing that, you are disqualifying us from any effort at a honest discussion.

You BELIEVE it doesn't apply. You BELIEVE that Jesus was once a fleshed out real person. Sherlock Holmes was born in 1854, 'according to Doyle'. Fictional characters can be created by anyone. That you won't even entertain the idea that Jesus might be fictional seems to more disqualify you than me. I don't have a dog in that race, but you are so committed to yours that you apparently can't even acknowledge the possibility that yours might not be a winner, even for a hypothetical.

(June 13, 2023 at 1:35 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 13, 2023 at 9:53 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: If only the Bible had thought to mention Noah was gathering eggs and babies aboard the ark, you wouldn't have to make those details up to explain the logistics problems. Remember that Noah only built the ark, the animals arrived under their own power, from all over the world. I suppose the eggs rolled over land and sea to get there? You're twisting reason into a pretzel to justify an explanation for surviving a global flood that there's no evidence happened in the first place. It seems like you'd be in a better postition sticking with the metaphorical lessons of the tale, since you acknoweledge that aspect of it anyway.

Noah did not gather anything God delivered it to him.

That's what I just said.

(June 13, 2023 at 1:35 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 13, 2023 at 9:53 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: I suppose the eggs rolled over land and sea to get there?

Or the animals came and left eggs..

Another ad hoc detail to insert your ideas into the Biblical story. The Bible is easy to believe when you can just make up additions to the stories so they'll make sense, huh?

(June 15, 2023 at 9:40 am)Ahriman Wrote: Coffee is shit but soda is pretty nice. Can't just drink water all the time, that's too boring.

I actually miss coffee more than soda. I was up to 4 cups a day after a nitro cold brew to kick off the morning.. Now I might have one sip of my wife's coffee at breakfast on Saturday mornings. It was extremely difficult giving it up took 4 months of jonesing for caffeine and sugar. but now I have steady energy all day, no 2:00pm crash and I want to drink water. it's been a year and I don't think I'd ever go back

(June 15, 2023 at 10:56 am)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 15, 2023 at 9:33 am)Angrboda Wrote: Apparently, Jesus' bodily resurrection wasn't a miracle.  TIL.  

And the purpose of Jesus' resurrection was to cement his claim being the son of god again giving him the authority to relay the new covenant/message of God.

I thought jesus was just yahwah in a skin suit?

Why is the Bible even such a big deal. I think it can be helpful but by no means is it "important" to read. You can live without it.

(June 15, 2023 at 9:26 am)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 14, 2023 at 6:36 pm)h4ym4n Wrote: Wonder how many scientific life lengthening prescription drugs your taking when a church healing is probably within a mile of your location.

You do understand the purpose of miracles and healing right?

The primary purpose of healing was to establish that the one doing the healing had the endorsement of God, So that when He delivered God's message to the leadership or people they knew He spoke with the direct authority of God, and could amend change or redirect the law or the people themselves. (present them with God's will)

Biblically speaking Miracles were never once used as a form of physical maintenance on the body, or meant as a prescribed way to reliably "fix" broken people. So then why would you expect us to use a one off ability, to maintain a healthy life? 

As, Once the Church was established there was no need for the miracles to continue. as god's work and final plan was complete.

And the answer was 4 1 allergy, 1 blood pressure, was taking one for cholesterol and one for heart rate but the new Dr took me off of those two. after I quit drinking all coffee tea and sodas. (only drink water now.)

Why are you taking scientific life extending drugs when god clearly doesn’t want you to continue living?

(June 13, 2023 at 2:01 pm)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 13, 2023 at 10:01 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Nudger has stated that his positon is one of objective morality. How did you arrive at the notion that he would bow to the winds of moral fashion. If I were him I would be offended at the insuation as well. What on earth makes you think this is his 'line of thought' in the first place? Are you so convinced that he's a moral relativist that you litertally can't hear him when he tells you he's not?

I have no control if one gets offended or not. I'm just communicating your personal offense was not the goal of the question.

That said I thought I was abundantly clear with the delivery of my question as to why I asked how far would nudger's acceptance of evolving morality would go. Because I wanted to see if there was a line. (Seemingly so)  then the next question would be at what point is said line drawn? I ask this to then ask What makes this the end of your moral relativism any different than the line God drew in the sand? Why is His line bad.. but your's/nudger's ok?

That's unusual, most people I know have a great deal of control over whether someone finds what they say offensive. Perhaps you are deficient in some way. You certainly seem deficient in understanding what people post. But maybe it's me. To me it's crystal clear that Nudger was stating his morality is objective, and therefore asking him how his morality would change if his country's did is a non sequitur. But perhaps I missed the post where Nudger said his morality would change depending on what's popular.

Do you know what you call someone who's not a moral realativist? A moral objectivist. And by the by, I am also a moral objectivist and never said anything that could reasonably be construed as indicating I'm not. You just assumed it.

(June 15, 2023 at 9:33 am)Angrboda Wrote: Apparently, Jesus' bodily resurrection wasn't a miracle.  TIL.  

Neither was his three days in the tomb.

Sundown to midnight ~ 6 hours.

Saturday ~24 hours.

Up before dawn on Sunday. ~6 hours.

Total 36 hours, not 72.

(June 13, 2023 at 3:48 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: Two things I personally believe the ark story happened further back than what most people understand. far enough back that the animals on the ark may not be recognized today. Which means Noah did not need to have today's zoological catalog on board. but rather some of the ancestors to what we have today. so instead of opossums and Koalas maybe all Noah needed was whatever their common ancestor was.

How about this: the story is really about a very large local flood and a family that was able to save all the animals on their farm by getting them onto a coracle; and the story grew quite a bit before Hebrews wrote it down; based on the similar Babylonian tale tthat they learned during their captivity?

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-...les-n20441