All the while claiming triumphant victory.

Now, let's make the Positive Case that Christianity is Good and Great even irrespective of the question of its Truth before coming to the objections:

1. The Moral Greatness of and Goodness of Christianity is proven by the Goodness and Greatness of its Divine Founder:

The Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, after showing the astonishing and unheard of Love never done before by any Jewish Rabbi, or any Pagan Philosopher, namely the Perfect Humility of washing His own Disciples' Feet, before He was going to die and lay down His Life for His Friends, and even His Enemies, on the Cross, then gave the Divine Commandment that sums up the Greatness of Christianity: "12So when He had washed their feet, taken His garments, and sat down again, He said to them, “Do you =know what I have done to you? 13[/url]You call Me Teacher and Lord, and you say well, for so I am. 14[/url]If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. 15For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you. 16Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. 17 If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them ... 33Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come,’ so now I say to you. 34A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13)

Jesus Christ loved His Friends even unto Death, i.e. (1) to laying down His Life and Sacrificing Himself for them. He then gave His Friends the Moral Commandment to show the same Love to all their Friends, i.e. (2) to lay down their lives for them if necessary, either to save their souls, or to help their material needs, as many Saints have done. From this it follows not only that (3) Christianity is the Religion of Love and Peace but (4) such a Great Religion of Love and Peace as has never existed before or since. And that His Apostles, including the same Apostle St. John who wrote these words, understood this case is proven from that Apostle's Words. "By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren." (1 Jn 3:16)

All - certainly all who live in Christian Countries - know and have heard of John 3:16. This is 1 Jn 3:16. Jn 3:16 is about God's Love for us, that God so Loved the World that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever would believe in Him would have Eternal Life and Eternal Happiness. 1 Jn 3:16 is the necessary obligation of love that the Holy Gospel demands in return from Christians - namely that we should love and live and die for one another. Christianity is thus so Great and Glorious that only a Soul who Hates Humanity could possibly attack these Great Gospel Values.

If it is not so, then explain why with clear reasons.

2. Second, Jesus Christ is the Only One in All History Who has ever taught to love not only one's Friends, but even those who wrongly consider you their Enemy, i.e. your so-called Enemies, and nobody else has said to Love One's Enemies than Jesus Christ. He said this in His Famous Sermon on the Mount:

Mat 5:"11Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets before you ...

43You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbors and ‘Hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,s 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same?


These words speak for themselves. They have never been matched by any Philosopher or Moralist Modern or Ancient. Let him, or her, answer who can. And btw the Early Christians did this when Malicious Christophobic Bigots such as Christ-hating Roman Pagans persecuted them badly.

And 360 MN Christians are still suffering badly in the world today in the Greatest Ongoing Genocide, Holocaust and Persecution of our time, and many very bad people - especially Militant Atheists - are culpably silent and refuse to condemn it. Now, to the objections in the subsequent post.

From this, Two things follow btw that (1) Christianity is Good and Great because its Founder was and His Commands were (2) that Darwino-Marxist Militant Atheism, that falsely claims in its wretched spiritual blindness that Christianity is allegedly "evil" is totally evil itself.

The Bible rightly warns: "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter." speaking of such misguided souls and blind guides as the Militant Atheists of today, who claim Christianity is allegedly "evil".

^But what about the pickled herring?

Boru

Long-winded wall of text that demonstrates nothing 

(July 29, 2023 at 6:00 pm)no one Wrote: Are you really that dumb?

If god knows everything, then god knew that the angel that would turn to satan, was going to turn before the heavens were created. And it did nothing to alter those plans, pretty shortsighted.

That is just one of the many, many, many, many reasons your god is an idiot.

Removed you and Naysayer from ignore lest anyone say I am ignoring this or that so-called objection.

Firstly, the manner in which you form your question, abusing Almighty God, is idiotic itself on your part.

Secondly, God gave Lucifer every opportunity to be saved, as He did also for all the other Angels, and as He did for both e.g. St. Peter, who was saved, by His Grace, and the Apostate Judas, who was not through his own fault. What was the difference between St. Peter and Judas? Christ gave both of them Holy Communion at the Last Supper, He washed the Feet of St. Peter no less than the feet of the Apostate Traitor Judas. 

What was the difference, then? St. Peter loved his Lord and Savior and wanted to lay down his life for him, even though he was weak on that night; the hate-filled Traitor Judas, who betrayed and killed his Best Friend, the God-Man Who loved him so much, instead hated the Son of God.

2/3rds of the Angels were saved, and 1/3rd of the Angels were lost. This is handed down in Scripture and Tradition. Lucifer was one of those Lost Angels, and he became lost through his own fault. God gave both human and angelic beings free will, and with that free will, all can choose to love God, by His Grace, and be saved, or hate God, as some of you Militant Atheists do, and be lost, through your own fault. God doesn't want anyone to be lost, as He says repeatedly in His Word, and that includes not only all men and women but also Angels and fallen Angels.

But God is not a slave to human caprice and malice, and not bound to wait forever to wicked to repent. He gives them chances, then moves on.

Here is 1 Tim 2, which shows God really wills to save all men, and all women too, and the same applies in principle to the Angels, provided they too are willing. This is also why it's True to say God died for all, and not just some; Limited Atonement is a Heresy. But only those who freely choose to accept that Sacrifice of Matchless Love on the Cross will be saved. You have the choice to do so and be saved, or not to do and be lost.

Lucifer had the same.

1 Timothy 2:

1 I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men:  2 For kings, and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity.  3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,  4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.  5 For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus: 6 Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.

Bible passage from: https://www.drbo.org/chapter/61002.htm

Face it. There never has been any Gospel Message of Love as Christianity. There never can be. There never will be. It is Mankind's One and Only Hope and the Only Way to Salvation. It is also manifestly Good, because it teaches (1) God Loves all (2) God died and offered His Life a Sacrifice for all, (3) we are all bound to love God and our neighbor, and will be saved if we accept Christ and do that (3) we should pray for all to be saved.

It was on a dreary night of November that I beheld the accomplishment of my toils. With an anxiety that almost amounted to agony, I collected the instruments of life around me, that I might infuse a spark of being into the lifeless thing that lay at my feet. It was already one in the morning; the rain pattered dismally against the panes, and my candle was nearly burnt out, when, by the glimmer of the half-extinguished light, I saw the dull yellow eye of the creature open; it breathed hard, and a convulsive motion agitated its limbs.

How can I describe my emotions at this catastrophe, or how delineate the wretch whom with such infinite pains and care I had endeavoured to form? His limbs were in proportion, and I had selected his features as beautiful. Beautiful! Great God! His yellow skin scarcely covered the work of muscles and arteries beneath; his hair was of a lustrous black, and flowing; his teeth of a pearly whiteness; but these luxuriances only formed a more horrid contrast with his watery eyes, that seemed almost of the same colour as the dun-white sockets in which they were set, his shrivelled complexion and straight black lips.

The different accidents of life are not so changeable as the feelings of human nature. I had worked hard for nearly two years, for the sole purpose of infusing life into an inanimate body. For this I had deprived myself of rest and health. I had desired it with an ardour that far exceeded moderation; but now that I had finished, the beauty of the dream vanished, and breathless horror and disgust filled my heart. Unable to endure the aspect of the being I had created, I rushed out of the room and continued a long time traversing my bed-chamber, unable to compose my mind to sleep. At length lassitude succeeded to the tumult I had before endured, and I threw myself on the bed in my clothes, endeavouring to seek a few moments of forgetfulness. But it was in vain; I slept, indeed, but I was disturbed by the wildest dreams. I thought I saw Elizabeth, in the bloom of health, walking in the streets of Ingolstadt. Delighted and surprised, I embraced her, but as I imprinted the first kiss on her lips, they became livid with the hue of death; her features appeared to change, and I thought that I held the corpse of my dead mother in my arms; a shroud enveloped her form, and I saw the grave-worms crawling in the folds of the flannel. I started from my sleep with horror; a cold dew covered my forehead, my teeth chattered, and every limb became convulsed; when, by the dim and yellow light of the moon, as it forced its way through the window shutters, I beheld the wretch–the miserable monster whom I had created. He held up the curtain of the bed; and his eyes, if eyes they may be called, were fixed on me. His jaws opened, and he muttered some inarticulate sounds, while a grin wrinkled his cheeks. He might have spoken, but I did not hear; one hand was stretched out, seemingly to detain me, but I escaped and rushed downstairs. I took refuge in the courtyard belonging to the house which I inhabited, where I remained during the rest of the night, walking up and down in the greatest agitation, listening attentively, catching and fearing each sound as if it were to announce the approach of the demoniacal corpse to which I had so miserably given life.

Oh! No mortal could support the horror of that countenance. A mummy again endued with animation could not be so hideous as that wretch. I had gazed on him while unfinished; he was ugly then, but when those muscles and joints were rendered capable of motion, it became a thing such as even Dante could not have conceived.

I passed the night wretchedly. Sometimes my pulse beat so quickly and hardly that I felt the palpitation of every artery; at others, I nearly sank to the ground through languor and extreme weakness. Mingled with this horror, I felt the bitterness of disappointment; dreams that had been my food and pleasant rest for so long a space were now become a hell to me; and the change was so rapid, the overthrow so complete!

Morning, dismal and wet, at length dawned and discovered to my sleepless and aching eyes the church of Ingolstadt, its white steeple and clock, which indicated the sixth hour. The porter opened the gates of the court, which had that night been my asylum, and I issued into the streets, pacing them with quick steps, as if I sought to avoid the wretch whom I feared every turning of the street would present to my view. I did not dare return to the apartment which I inhabited, but felt impelled to hurry on, although drenched by the rain which poured from a black and comfortless sky.

I continued walking in this manner for some time, endeavouring by bodily exercise to ease the load that weighed upon my mind. I traversed the streets without any clear conception of where I was or what I was doing. My heart palpitated in the sickness of fear, and I hurried on with irregular steps, not daring to look about me:

 Like one who, on a lonely road,
 Doth walk in fear and dread,
 And, having once turned round, walks on,
 And turns no more his head;
 Because he knows a frightful fiend
 Doth close behind him tread.
[Coleridge’s “Ancient Mariner."]

Continuing thus, I came at length opposite to the inn at which the various diligences and carriages usually stopped. Here I paused, I knew not why; but I remained some minutes with my eyes fixed on a coach that was coming towards me from the other end of the street. As it drew nearer I observed that it was the Swiss diligence; it stopped just where I was standing, and on the door being opened, I perceived Henry Clerval, who, on seeing me, instantly sprung out. “My dear Frankenstein,” exclaimed he, “how glad I am to see you! How fortunate that you should be here at the very moment of my alighting!”

Nothing could equal my delight on seeing Clerval; his presence brought back to my thoughts my father, Elizabeth, and all those scenes of home so dear to my recollection. I grasped his hand, and in a moment forgot my horror and misfortune; I felt suddenly, and for the first time during many months, calm and serene joy. I welcomed my friend, therefore, in the most cordial manner, and we walked towards my college. Clerval continued talking for some time about our mutual friends and his own good fortune in being permitted to come to Ingolstadt. “You may easily believe,” said he, “how great was the difficulty to persuade my father that all necessary knowledge was not comprised in the noble art of bookkeeping; and, indeed, I believe I left him incredulous to the last, for his constant answer to my unwearied entreaties was the same as that of the Dutch schoolmaster in The Vicar of Wakefield: `I have ten thousand florins a year without Greek, I eat heartily without Greek.’ But his affection for me at length overcame his dislike of learning, and he has permitted me to undertake a voyage of discovery to the land of knowledge.”

“It gives me the greatest delight to see you; but tell me how you left my father, brothers, and Elizabeth.”

“Very well, and very happy, only a little uneasy that they hear from you so seldom. By the by, I mean to lecture you a little upon their account myself. But, my dear Frankenstein,” continued he, stopping short and gazing full in my face, “I did not before remark how very ill you appear; so thin and pale; you look as if you had been watching for several nights.”

“You have guessed right; I have lately been so deeply engaged in one occupation that I have not allowed myself sufficient rest, as you see; but I hope, I sincerely hope, that all these employments are now at an end and that I am at length free.”

I trembled excessively; I could not endure to think of, and far less to allude to, the occurrences of the preceding night. I walked with a quick pace, and we soon arrived at my college. I then reflected, and the thought made me shiver, that the creature whom I had left in my apartment might still be there, alive and walking about. I dreaded to behold this monster, but I feared still more that Henry should see him. Entreating him, therefore, to remain a few minutes at the bottom of the stairs, I darted up towards my own room. My hand was already on the lock of the door before I recollected myself. I then paused, and a cold shivering came over me. I threw the door forcibly open, as children are accustomed to do when they expect a spectre to stand in waiting for them on the other side; but nothing appeared. I stepped fearfully in: the apartment was empty, and my bedroom was also freed from its hideous guest. I could hardly believe that so great a good fortune could have befallen me, but when I became assured that my enemy had indeed fled, I clapped my hands for joy and ran down to Clerval.

We ascended into my room, and the servant presently brought breakfast; but I was unable to contain myself. It was not joy only that possessed me; I felt my flesh tingle with excess of sensitiveness, and my pulse beat rapidly. I was unable to remain for a single instant in the same place; I jumped over the chairs, clapped my hands, and laughed aloud. Clerval at first attributed my unusual spirits to joy on his arrival, but when he observed me more attentively, he saw a wildness in my eyes for which he could not account, and my loud, unrestrained, heartless laughter frightened and astonished him.

“My dear Victor,” cried he, “what, for God’s sake, is the matter? Do not laugh in that manner. How ill you are! What is the cause of all this?”

“Do not ask me,” cried I, putting my hands before my eyes, for I thought I saw the dreaded spectre glide into the room; “HE can tell. Oh, save me! Save me!” I imagined that the monster seized me; I struggled furiously and fell down in a fit.

Poor Clerval! What must have been his feelings? A meeting, which he anticipated with such joy, so strangely turned to bitterness. But I was not the witness of his grief, for I was lifeless and did not recover my senses for a long, long time.

This was the commencement of a nervous fever which confined me for several months. During all that time Henry was my only nurse. I afterwards learned that, knowing my father’s advanced age and unfitness for so long a journey, and how wretched my sickness would make Elizabeth, he spared them this grief by concealing the extent of my disorder. He knew that I could not have a more kind and attentive nurse than himself; and, firm in the hope he felt of my recovery, he did not doubt that, instead of doing harm, he performed the kindest action that he could towards them.

But I was in reality very ill, and surely nothing but the unbounded and unremitting attentions of my friend could have restored me to life. The form of the monster on whom I had bestowed existence was forever before my eyes, and I raved incessantly concerning him. Doubtless my words surprised Henry; he at first believed them to be the wanderings of my disturbed imagination, but the pertinacity with which I continually recurred to the same subject persuaded him that my disorder indeed owed its origin to some uncommon and terrible event.

By very slow degrees, and with frequent relapses that alarmed and grieved my friend, I recovered. I remember the first time I became capable of observing outward objects with any kind of pleasure, I perceived that the fallen leaves had disappeared and that the young buds were shooting forth from the trees that shaded my window. It was a divine spring, and the season contributed greatly to my convalescence. I felt also sentiments of joy and affection revive in my bosom; my gloom disappeared, and in a short time I became as cheerful as before I was attacked by the fatal passion.

“Dearest Clerval,” exclaimed I, “how kind, how very good you are to me. This whole winter, instead of being spent in study, as you promised yourself, has been consumed in my sick room. How shall I ever repay you? I feel the greatest remorse for the disappointment of which I have been the occasion, but you will forgive me.”

“You will repay me entirely if you do not discompose yourself, but get well as fast as you can; and since you appear in such good spirits, I may speak to you on one subject, may I not?”

I trembled. One subject! What could it be? Could he allude to an object on whom I dared not even think? “Compose yourself,” said Clerval, who observed my change of colour, “I will not mention it if it agitates you; but your father and cousin would be very happy if they received a letter from you in your own handwriting. They hardly know how ill you have been and are uneasy at your long silence.”

“Is that all, my dear Henry? How could you suppose that my first thought would not fly towards those dear, dear friends whom I love and who are so deserving of my love?”

“If this is your present temper, my friend, you will perhaps be glad to see a letter that has been lying here some days for you; it is from your cousin, I believe.”



And there you have it folks, Frankenstien's monster is real.

If god knows everything, you fucking moron, there are no chances.

(July 29, 2023 at 8:25 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(July 29, 2023 at 4:11 pm)Nishant Xavier Wrote: Yes, God knows everything, absolutely. Where's your Evidence that God is allegedly short-sighted as the 2nd part of your question claims?

According to polemics, your god doesn't know how to solve the Problem of Evil without permitting evil. So there's one bit of short-sightedness right there.

I should think an omnipotent god could teach humans compassion and gratitude without, you know, making them suffer evil. I didn't have to kill my son to teach him that killing is wrong. Why can't your god impart compassion as easily?

The Mother of God once told a Saint, and this is important: "The Glory of Eternal Life and Happiness is incompatible with the Shame of not having duly labored for its attainment."

Eternal Happiness is so Great a Good that in light of it a little temporal suffering is infinitesimally small. That doesn't mean we should cause or be indifferent to people suffering, not at all, we already saw above Christ taught to love all neighbors and even so-called enemies and provide for their material and spiritual needs. But it does mean, we should all value and love the Great Good of Eternal Happiness for ourselves above all, and consider the Cross we have to carry to get there to be little and light in comparison. 

That's what it means to seek the Kingdom of God first: and those who do that will have all else added to them, according to the Lord's Promise, and the Saints' experiences. Seek Eternal Happiness first. Btw, any sufferings you bear, and bear patiently, for the Love of God, as the Martyrs did, Earns/Merits Eternal Rewards.

More can be said, but that should suffice for now.

Did I miss anyone?

Smeghead.

Boru

None of that addresses Thumps point just more deluded preaching and excuse-making