Not all lonely folk have any sense of entitlement.

Yet they still have the problem of loneliness.

Where the root cause of that loneliness is plausible inability to receive sexual and romantic validation and relationships because of unattractiveness then yes, the problem is unattractiveness.

You keep talking about loneliness. There are plenty of ways to cure loneliness that don't involve sex or romantic relationships. So the loneliness bit is a misnomer.

I never said everyone who is lonely is entiled. The thread is referring to incels.

(September 10, 2023 at 9:21 am)no one Wrote: I never said everyone who is lonely is entiled. The thread is referring to incels.

Yes, but the conservation had moved on quite a bit. And there was a discussion on exactly what counted as an incel, and we established that both all incels are the stereotype of the angry, entitled, sexist dude. So there's entitled incels and not entitled incels. And even the horrible incels git that way because of initial preconditions, such as being lonely and mentally ill and then subject to radicalisation online. The loneliness comes first, and that is sometimes because of ugliness and neurodiversity.

(September 10, 2023 at 8:48 am)Angrboda Wrote: You keep talking about loneliness. There are plenty of ways to cure loneliness that don't involve sex or romantic relationships. So the loneliness bit is a misnomer.

Iirc, there was an earlier delineation of the types of loneliness. And a comparison to isolation and social ostracisation.

From my limited reading, for most people, loneliness will occur unless: they have at least one close friend, at least one romantic/sexual partner, feel they belong in wider society, and have regular positive social interactions. All those criteria must be met. For incels, the first two and especially the second, are the ones missing. They are the most important as far as a sort of Maslow hierarchy of needs goes.

(September 10, 2023 at 3:02 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(September 9, 2023 at 10:33 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: It'd be interesting to see pictures of these incels doomed to loneliness because they're hideous in appearance. Let's get a sample here, to support this argument being laid.

It aint their face that's ugly, or at least, no uglier than faces attached to bodies which are getting laid.  They're plenty ugly, alright, but it's in a worse way than buck teeth.

We both know this, but that is Fool's argument. I want to see it supported.

Perhaps to break down issues and solutions:

Radicalised sexism and other outwards blaming others: needs de-radicalisation therapy and a treatment of the underlying predispositions that led to being vulnerable to such indoctrination

Entitlement: personal therapy work to remove such narcissism

Mental health issues like depression, body dysmorphia, self-hatred etc arising from bullying, isolation, loneliness etc: therapy and medical intervention to treat those issues, plus treatment of the underlying issue that led to such trauma and issues

Physical unattractiveness: some can be treated with plastic surgery, gym and diet, better dress sense; others can't really be helped with current technology

Chronic loneliness: seems largely untreatable at present

Lack of charismatic attractiveness: therapy and education for basic stuff; things like neurodiversity cannot be changed at present

Inability to form romantic relationships because of unattractiveness: treat the underlying causes of unattractiveness where they can be treated

Well then entitlement and utter stupidity lead to the radicalization. That and the fact that they apparently cannot think for themselves.

(September 10, 2023 at 9:51 am)no one Wrote: Well then entitlement and utter stupidity lead to the radicalization. That and the fact that they apparently cannot think for themselves.

I'm not sure what complex factors lead to radicalisation, but things like low IQ aren't really blameworthy. We are all more susceptible to indoctrination and radicalisation than we like to believe, I think. Loneliness, social isolation, frustration, and emotional vulnerability seem likely factors that would make it easier to manipulate someone.

(September 10, 2023 at 9:27 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(September 10, 2023 at 8:48 am)Angrboda Wrote: You keep talking about loneliness.  There are plenty of ways to cure loneliness that don't involve sex or romantic relationships.  So the loneliness bit is a misnomer.

Iirc, there was an earlier delineation of the types of loneliness.  And a comparison to isolation and social ostracisation.

From my limited reading, for most people, loneliness will occur unless: they have at least one close friend, at least one romantic/sexual partner, feel they belong in wider society, and have regular positive social interactions.  All those criteria must be met.  For incels, the first two and especially the second, are the ones missing.  They are the most important as far as a sort of Maslow hierarchy of needs goes.

That's a crock of shit.