In occidental culture believers create the illusion of their possession of a superior morality because it perpetuates their world view. "You don't believe what I believe so you're going to hell." Religion, in that culture specifically, either as a result of the ideology or to support it, took upon itself political adversity with the emerging intelligentsia. Since that adversary arose from the illusion and the obvious logical flaws it had incorporated historically - hypocrisy, ignorance, xenophobia, oppression, repression, and violence through military, legislative and social dominance - by support of the masses, there are some important lessons to be learned from it.

The teachings of the believers was full of holes. They weren't harmonious with the source. In order for, or as a result of the implementation of their sociopolitical illusion it was necessarily so. Their ideology wasn't compatible with their teachings. That doesn't matter. It's a small sacrifice because their ideology is what became important.

So, there's this reality created from that transmogrification of the source and mythology. If I had to define religion that's pretty much how I would put it. That's also how I would describe the world around me. Reality. The sacred and profane. Secular and religious. Quixotic and mundane.

So there is this logical excursion that should be derived from this turn of events. Critically examine, explore, educate, illuminate. Or, instead, just repeat it. Argue, judge, sentence and eliminate. Become your enemy. Just another side of the ideological coin of reality. The world view.

My theory is that the latter is what is happening to science. That's what I mean when I say "the end" is near and that science will destroy the world. Science isn't a religion, it's a byproduct of religion. Created by religion: the student becomes the master. Science is not only eliminating religion it is surpassing it.

The lesson for atheists, or just the unbeliever, is that it doesn't matter if religion and the Bible is wrong and nonsense, because it is the formed "reality" and instead of arguing what is right and wrong, perhaps you should look at it like that.

From my perspective, from my Biblically founded perception of reality, it's done. So, stopping it isn't the priority. My priority is simply observation.

That's why I want an exchange of ideas here. I want to learn, not from the books of science, but from adversity. Both sides. Without the propaganda.

It astounds me that those who wear scientific methodology on their sleeves are painfully unaware or unwilling to do that. Not for the historical preservation of the vanquished. To educate so as not to repeat history. But rather, for the ideological replacement.

Right and wrong. Us and them. A far more compelling process than science. As it had been with the adversary. So the illusion propagated by the unbelievers is of intellectual superiority.

Yeah, I know, I know. It is funny. So is the illusion of the religious of moral superiority.

So . . . if I'm right in my Biblically founded perspective then you will attempt to destroy all that I believe in but God will intervene. Science will be taken from the cold dead hands of the wicked and placed into mine. Not by me. Not by my argument or my violence. By God. So, if I'm wrong nothing happens through my will.

If you're right you will destroy first science and then the world.

If I'm right everyone who follows ideological science will be destroyed. If you're right everyone will be destroyed.

I don't get it.
Can you dumb it down for me, please?

(September 20, 2023 at 10:33 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: I don't get it.
Can you dumb it down for me, please?

I thought it was dumb enough.

There is no science of atheism.

Why write a multi paragraph post, why even create a thread about nothing?

(September 20, 2023 at 10:33 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: I don't get it.
Can you dumb it down for me, please?

The unnecessary struggle between theism and atheism is a social and political struggle that has very little to do with God or the Bible or any other religion. That's why I use the term militant. It's a world view war. The catalyst for the first industrial revolution was steam, for the second industrial revolution it was oil. So you had a huge migration of people, ideas, religions, and entertainment. One popular form of entertainment was the bringing over of exotic animals which people of western cultures had only ever heard about. Giraffes, tigers, chimpanzees. The chimps were especially entertaining because they were so humanlike. The people in those cultures at that time were very prudish, even putting cloth coverings on piano legs, so naturally they dressed the chimps in human clothing. 

At the same time the intelligentsia was beginning to rebel against theocratic control and social oppression. Religion, especially Abrahamic, had a pretty good grip on controlling people politically and socially. Also a form of education from Prussia in which the objective was to produce mindless and obedient workers and consumers was becoming popular in order to benefit the industrial revolutions. The stated objective there was to switch the purpose of public education from producing great artists, scientists, doctors, lawyers and thinkers to producing obedient workers and consumers. This was accomplished by first destroying the beliefs of the student. Not just religious beliefs but everything they believed in. 

During this time Darwin began to expand on the ancient Greek philosophies of evolution - Anaxagoras, Anaximander, Aristotle and Empedocles - and it was immediately seen as a vehicle for the much needed rebellion against theocracy. 



 

What happens when a revolution replaces one power with another of equal or worse destructive behavior? 

The result of all of this is that atheists, who have been taught not to believe or think for themselves but to appeal to another "god" fail to see they not only have become their enemy and are repeating the history of their enemy, but they do so with far more potential for that destructive behavior. The crusades and inquisition got nothing on chemical, biological, and technological warfare and the people are too indoctrinated with materialism and separate from nature, the world and themselves to see it happening. In fact, just like the ignorant peasants of the past they support it.

ETA: Forgot the conclusion.

The believers fight this, as best they can, but that is foolish because it is already done in the eyes of a true Bible believer. The destruction has already been foretold. It's part of Jehovah God's plan. The world will be destroyed but the meek will inherit the earth and live forever in peace upon it. Then, without the constraints of the material true science could very likely thrive as never before.

@Data
"The unnecessary struggle between theism and atheism is a social and political struggle that has very little to do with God or the Bible or any other religion."

Disagree. Whilst it is a social and political struggle, it also has a lot to do with arguments for/against God, and the teachings/actions of specific religions.

"That's why I use the term militant. It's a world view war."
OK. Up to you.

"What happens when a revolution replaces one power with another of equal or worse destructive behavior?"
Bad things, I guess. 

"The result of all of this is that atheists, who have been taught not to believe or think for themselves"
Which atheists are these? I don't include myself in that group.

"but to appeal to another "god" fail to see they not only have become their enemy and are repeating the history of their enemy, but they do so with far more potential for that destructive behavior."
I assume you mean atheists who are scientistic and/or Marxist? Hard to tell exactly what you mean here. But ok, authoritarians of various stripes aren't great. I agree. Not a big fan of illiberal societies whether communist or theocratic.

"The crusades and inquisition got nothing on chemical, biological, and technological warfare and the people are too indoctrinated with materialism and separate from nature, the world and themselves to see it happening. In fact, just like the ignorant peasants of the past they support it."
Who supports biological warfare? I don't see a divide between war mongering theists and war mongeringt athiests. I'm more scared of Russian Orthodox Christians or Iranian Muslims having WMD than Danish atheist secularists.

So, in short, I still don't really get what you're on about.

I would not worry about it. Data has already informed us that he is the original Internet troll.

Trolls gonna troll.

(September 20, 2023 at 11:24 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: So, in short, I still don't really get what you're on about.

It is just a bunch of half-baked ideas mixed with incoherent rambling that are all over the place.

(September 20, 2023 at 10:44 am)arewethereyet Wrote:

(September 20, 2023 at 10:33 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: I don't get it.
Can you dumb it down for me, please?

I thought it was dumb enough.

Now now, Give him a chance, I'm sure he can be even dumber.

I couldn’t finish the whole thing. I got as far as ‘my Biblically founded perception of reality’ and laughed so hard I lost two fillings.

Boru