Specifically I am curious if the Hebrew alphabet is associated to a observer constructing a completely different catch to a reading of basic characters that the observer preceded a unknown singular perception from the exact same representation of language administered via text. Kind of like a rorshawk except it would be more in tune with a encoded message from a higher discernability for Good Data rather than the text's hoped for folcrum point of based reference in person hood against the total non=existent personhood you actually can get from just letters, no matter how they're arranged. Its not that I'm seeking if person planted secret tiny caches of information inside their scribings, because I'm sure they did that plenty in a world that didn't always have whatsapp like simpleness. Could Hebrew letters be able to form pictures, english sentences, jokes, puns, and prophecy, etc, and it is always incumbent on them being laid parrallell to each other?

So is the Torah a wrilting that could be usurped if one was able to read the entire writings of Moses in one tongue that is EXACTLY pronounced as the lr/rl holds true integrity to, yet the observers concluded that overwhelmingly, the scrolls birth right was transfered to a re-approved "davidic" line ?

Huh?

Dafuq is a rorshawk?

You might want to figure out English before you leap to Hebrew.

(February 27, 2024 at 5:10 pm)Won2blv Wrote: Specifically I am curious if the Hebrew alphabet is associated to a observer constructing a completely different catch to a reading of basic characters that the observer preceded a unknown singular perception from the exact same representation of language administered via text. Kind of like a rorshawk except it would be more in tune with a encoded message from a higher discernability for Good Data rather than the text's hoped for folcrum point of based reference in person hood against the total non=existent personhood you actually can get from just letters, no matter how they're arranged. Its not that I'm seeking if person planted secret tiny caches of information inside their scribings, because I'm sure they did that plenty in a world that didn't always have whatsapp like simpleness. Could Hebrew letters be able to form pictures, english sentences, jokes, puns, and prophecy, etc, and it is always incumbent on them being laid parrallell to each other?

So is the Torah a wrilting that could be usurped if one was able to read the entire writings of Moses in one tongue that is EXACTLY pronounced as the lr/rl holds true integrity to, yet the observers concluded that overwhelmingly, the scrolls birth right was transfered to a re-approved "davidic" line ?

I like spearmint more than peppermint.

Boru

If I’m interpreting the OP accurately (and I’m not sure such a thing is even possible), they seem to be confused about the way the Hebrew language works. Possibly about how malleable the vowel sounds are in a language where there are no written vowels, or maybe if there are multiple different ways of writing it and interpreting the words from the way they’re spaced.

(February 27, 2024 at 5:10 pm)Won2blv Wrote: Specifically I am curious if the Hebrew alphabet is associated to a observer constructing a completely different catch to a reading of basic characters that the observer preceded a unknown singular perception from the exact same representation of language administered via text. Kind of like a rorshawk except it would be more in tune with a encoded message from a higher discernability for Good Data rather than the text's hoped for folcrum point of based reference in person hood against the total non=existent personhood you actually can get from just letters, no matter how they're arranged. Its not that I'm seeking if person planted secret tiny caches of information inside their scribings, because I'm sure they did that plenty in a world that didn't always have whatsapp like simpleness. Could Hebrew letters be able to form pictures, english sentences, jokes, puns, and prophecy, etc, and it is always incumbent on them being laid parrallell to each other?

You bring up important points about translation, and the importance of reading books in their original languages. Unfortunately I'm not expert enough to answer your questions specifically.

I think that any language, not just Hebrew, is capable of expressing much more than the literal narrative meaning of the text. Good writers can use puns, homophones, sly references, quotations, etc. etc., to give the attentive reader all kinds of meaning. Irony. Acrostics. Letters used as numbers. And of course there are nuances that existed in the Hebrew of the time that are gone now -- modern Hebrew is different.

So it's entirely possible that the original writers of the Hebrew texts included messages that are lost in translation. And of course a person who believes that the text is inspired by or dictated by God would find it plausible that there are structures and meanings which were obscure even to the original author, the meaning of which are only revealed over time. 

To get a good answer to your question, I think you'd have to find an expert in the Kabbalah. These are the guys who work on the esoteric meanings that are, they think, hidden in plain view in the text. At the very least, you'd need to work on the four-level Pardes hermeneutics that have been intrinsic to Hebrew Bible studies for a long time. 

(Recently I've been reading a novel by Nabokov with a group of Japanese students. This is not a spiritual text, obviously, but it's brought home to us how much of the quality of the text is untranslatable. The beauty of the language, the humor, the solipsistic layering of the narrative -- nearly all of this is lost when we compare the Japanese translation. So if it's true of a 20th century aesthetic object, I don't doubt it would be much more true in scripture.)

Quote:So is the Torah a wrilting that could be usurped if one was able to read the entire writings of Moses in one tongue that is EXACTLY pronounced as the lr/rl holds true integrity to, yet the observers concluded that overwhelmingly, the scrolls birth right was transfered to a re-approved "davidic" line ?

Since the historical -- or quasi-historical -- events described in the Hebrew Bible were written down long after they supposedly occurred, there's no doubt that they were retold according to the purposes of the writers. That means that if anyone wanted to establish the legitimacy of a family line, or claims to land, they could build it into the text from the beginning. 

But yes, it certainly seems possible to read meanings into the text that (most likely) were not there originally, even without changing any words. The most obvious example is the Christian reading of the Hebrew prophecy (like the Suffering Servant) in an attempt to usurp one narrative in support of a different one.

Check out Moishe and the Matzah Balls "Knish me Goodnight".