Quote:Did you actually read her article?  

No; it was paywalled. But I did spend most of an hour listening to her interview about it.

Quote:I don't necessarily agree with it all but found it to be a refreshing change from the common rhetoric around travel.  I do think actually living in a foreign country is different from the kind of travel she was talking about.   I have known a lot of people who liked to go to touristy destinations and spend a ton of money having fun and justify it as "mind expanding" when the real reason seems to be self indulgence and consumerism.  I mean I am obviously biased as well because after my Dad left our family he loved to go on several tropical vacations each year (he loved hot places) and sent us postcards.  I admired his glamorous lifestyle but only years later thought about the fact that my younger brother and I didn't have enough food to eat at that time, or decent clothing for school.  He also didn't pay for us to attend college, even though he himself had a degree and his parents paid for his schooling.  So I guess lounging on all those beaches in Bermuda and the Bahamas wasn't "eye opening" for him.

I understand why your experience might breed resentment, but I also think that much of what value there is in travel relies upon the tourist -- whether they're a trail-broken horse or whether they're there for their own learning. As such, I think generalizing about the benefits or deficits of travel without taking in mind the traveler might make for a nice headline, but not so much thoughtful fodder.

I think folks who only travel to touristy spots are really missing the point, because they're visiting the nicely polished spots rather than getting down into the nitty-gritty. Again, it's a personal experience thing. Yes, I've visited the Alhambra, Persepolis, and other touristy spots. I find more interest in side paths. That's how I travel. As I thought when I heard her interview (I think it was the NPR show "On Point"), sleep in a hostel, don't hire a guide, and don't make a plan. That's how you see the real culture.

Mary was the OG Contrarian. Great gardener thou

(March 5, 2024 at 2:20 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

Quote:Did you actually read her article?  

No; it was paywalled. But I did spend most of an hour listening to her interview about it.

Quote:I don't necessarily agree with it all but found it to be a refreshing change from the common rhetoric around travel.  I do think actually living in a foreign country is different from the kind of travel she was talking about.   I have known a lot of people who liked to go to touristy destinations and spend a ton of money having fun and justify it as "mind expanding" when the real reason seems to be self indulgence and consumerism.  I mean I am obviously biased as well because after my Dad left our family he loved to go on several tropical vacations each year (he loved hot places) and sent us postcards.  I admired his glamorous lifestyle but only years later thought about the fact that my younger brother and I didn't have enough food to eat at that time, or decent clothing for school.  He also didn't pay for us to attend college, even though he himself had a degree and his parents paid for his schooling.  So I guess lounging on all those beaches in Bermuda and the Bahamas wasn't "eye opening" for him.

I understand why your experience might breed resentment, but I also think that much of what value there is in travel relies upon the tourist -- whether they're a trail-broken horse or whether they're there for their own learning. As such, I think generalizing about the benefits or deficits of travel without taking in mind the traveler might make for a nice headline, but not so much thoughtful fodder.

I think folks who only travel to touristy spots are really missing the point, because they're visiting the nicely polished spots rather than getting down into the nitty-gritty. Again, it's a personal experience thing. Yes, I've visited the Alhambra, Persepolis, and other touristy spots. I find more interest in side paths. That's how I travel. As I thought when I heard her interview (I think it was the NPR show "On Point"), sleep in a hostel, don't hire a guide, and don't make a plan. That's how you see the real culture.

I don't disagree - I have done some travelling myself and always felt that it CAN be mind-expanding, but so can many things. I found the article to be very thoughtful and present an interesting counterpoint to conventional views. There is a huge financial incentive to promote tourism by convincing people that travel (including touristy travel) makes them "deep." This is just not a given. And hey - I also loved my Dad and I'm glad he got to do some things he enjoyed although I wish he had paid more attention to what was going on with his kids. He ended up dying quite early, so I'm glad he didn't wait until retirement to do what made him happy.

Part of my beef is the exultation of travel as being "necessary" for perspective or personal growth when the ability to travel is dependent on having money. I do know one guy who is passionate about world travel and does the things you mentioned - stays in hostels, talks with locals, explores without a guide - and yes, I see him as quite different from most of the "jet set" I know who make regular trips to Vegas and other tourist traps.

(March 5, 2024 at 3:51 pm)Jillybean Wrote: Part of my beef is the exultation of travel as being "necessary" for perspective or personal growth when the ability to travel is dependent on having money.  I do know one guy who  is passionate about world travel and does the things you mentioned - stays in hostels, talks with locals, explores without a guide - and yes, I see him as quite different from most of the "jet set" I know who make regular trips to Vegas and other tourist traps.

But in a very real sense, it is necessary to understand another culture. One can read about the various cultures, and learn something, but being immersed in the culture is an entirely different thing.

Travel's unnecessary for personal growth because growth may happen in many different directions -- that is, the interests of the person doing the growing. But if one wants even a layman's understanding of cultural anthropology and geography, travel is indispensable.

‘Anyone who thinks people are the same everywhere and “folks is just folks” has never been further out of Podunk than the next whistle stop.’ - Lazarus Long

Boru