(August 11, 2024 at 2:26 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:

(August 11, 2024 at 2:24 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If someone make a choice for moral reasons, it is a moral choice. This seems so obvious that I actually feel it shouldn't need to be pointed out.

Who the hell are you to tell someone else whether their choices are based on moral values or not?

Boru

If.

Who the hell are you to tell me anything? You might think that not eating meat is moral but I'm just getting a nice laugh out of it.

But you can't determine if someone choosing veganism is making a moral choice unless you know their motivations. 

Broad brush, much?

Boru

(August 11, 2024 at 2:34 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 11, 2024 at 2:26 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: If.

Who the hell are you to tell me anything? You might think that not eating meat is moral but I'm just getting a nice laugh out of it.

But you can't determine if someone choosing veganism is making a moral choice unless you know their motivations. 

Broad brush, much?

Boru

As things stands only OP and you made claim about veganism being morally virtuous position. No actual vegan took this stance. That aside I might simply not believe claim made, just like with countless other claims.

No broad brush here. I just don't agree with calling someone dietary preference a moral choice. If someone disagrees then tough shit I guess as I'm under no obligation to agree.

(August 11, 2024 at 2:39 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:

(August 11, 2024 at 2:34 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But you can't determine if someone choosing veganism is making a moral choice unless you know their motivations. 

Broad brush, much?

Boru

As things stands only OP and you made claim about veganism being morally virtuous position. No actual vegan took this stance. That aside I might simply not believe claim made, just like with countless other claims.

No broad brush here. I just don't agree with calling someone dietary preference a moral choice. If someone disagrees then tough shit I guess as I'm under no obligation to agree.

I did NOT claim that veganism is a morally virtuous position. Read that post again.

Boru

(August 11, 2024 at 2:44 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 11, 2024 at 2:39 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: As things stands only OP and you made claim about veganism being morally virtuous position. No actual vegan took this stance. That aside I might simply not believe claim made, just like with countless other claims.

No broad brush here. I just don't agree with calling someone dietary preference a moral choice. If someone disagrees then tough shit I guess as I'm under no obligation to agree.

I did NOT claim that veganism is a morally virtuous position. Read that post again.

Boru

My apologies, you said there are plenty of people who make that choice for morally virtuous reasons. I'm still not buying it. Also there is still a conspicuous absence of vegans making similar claims.

(August 11, 2024 at 2:48 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:

(August 11, 2024 at 2:44 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I did NOT claim that veganism is a morally virtuous position. Read that post again.

Boru

My apologies, you said there are plenty of people who make that choice for morally virtuous reasons. I'm still not buying it. Also there is still a conspicuous absence of vegans making similar claims.

Actually, the majority of people practicing veganism ARE doing so as a moral choice - opposing the commodity status of animals.

And it’s not simply ‘a dietary choice’.

Boru

(August 11, 2024 at 3:05 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 11, 2024 at 2:48 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: My apologies, you said there are plenty of people who make that choice for morally virtuous reasons. I'm still not buying it. Also there is still a conspicuous absence of vegans making similar claims.

Actually, the majority of people practicing veganism ARE doing so as a moral choice - opposing the commodity status of animals.

And it’s not simply ‘a dietary choice’.

Boru

Your proclamation on behalf of others magically changed my mind.

It's not simply dietary choice? It's like your opinion dude.

(August 11, 2024 at 3:10 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:

(August 11, 2024 at 3:05 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Actually, the majority of people practicing veganism ARE doing so as a moral choice - opposing the commodity status of animals.

And it’s not simply ‘a dietary choice’.

Boru

Your proclamation on behalf of others magically changed my mind.  

It's not simply dietary choice? It's like your opinion dude.

You know you can actually look these things up, right?

And veganism isn’t just about food. Vegans eschew all animal products - leather, animal-based adhesives, feathers, fur, ivory, wool, etc.

Boru

(August 11, 2024 at 3:43 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 11, 2024 at 3:10 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: Your proclamation on behalf of others magically changed my mind.  

It's not simply dietary choice? It's like your opinion dude.

You know you can actually look these things up, right?

And veganism isn’t just about food. Vegans eschew all animal products - leather, animal-based adhesives, feathers, fur, ivory, wool, etc.

Boru

You know you can form your own opinions on things, right?

So? Still not a moral choice.

(August 11, 2024 at 3:46 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:

(August 11, 2024 at 3:43 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: You know you can actually look these things up, right?

And veganism isn’t just about food. Vegans eschew all animal products - leather, animal-based adhesives, feathers, fur, ivory, wool, etc.

Boru

You know you can form your own opinions on things, right?

So? Still not a moral choice.

Everyone’s entitled to form their own opinions. What you’re not entitled to are you own facts. And it’s a fact, beyond reasonable dispute, that veganism can be a moral choice.

Boru

(August 11, 2024 at 5:12 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 11, 2024 at 3:46 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: You know you can form your own opinions on things, right?

So? Still not a moral choice.

Everyone’s entitled to form their own opinions. What you’re not entitled to are you own facts. And it’s a fact, beyond reasonable dispute, that veganism can be a moral choice.

Boru

You're certainly entitled to opinion on possibility of veganism being moral choice. Just don't expect me to agree with it cause you deem your opinion to be fact.