During a podcast, rapper Fat Joe offended a lot of people. I don't intend on sharing what he specifically said. But many are expressing their disdain on countless YouTube platforms. Joe's comment has prompted me to look for the full context on what is currently an ongoing debate:
 
Based on what I understand now, Hip Hop is interchangeable. It's a genre of music which began when the earliest rap artists were recorded. And it's a movement or a culture of various activities including disk jockeying, improvised spoken word, dance battles, graffiti, block parties, enthused young children innovating these art forms and much more. 
 
Hip Hop is an identity for many individuals like KRS-One and Afrika Bambaata. 
 
According to Niya Falls, "Disco King Mario was an eminent DJ in the Bronx." The neighborhood respected him and he's "a major part of the creation of Hip Hop"(hiphopgoldenage)
 
On July 1st 2023, Rosedale Ave was co-named Disco King Mario Way. (News12 Brooklyn)
 
Hip Hop is also an identity for many people who witnessed Jim Crow laws and the harassment it caused to their loved ones. Additionally, many lived to witness its 50th birthday on the same year Mario Way was co-named. Hip Hop (not specifically rap music) started in this Jim Crow era and it's roots are settled earlier in a darker period.
 
So, is Fat Joe discrediting Hip Hop's lost and hidden figures? Are Hip Hop critics fair to scold him?
As far as I know, Fat Joe was unprofessional in his tone on the podcast. There's certainly a large community (including Bronx natives) who maintain historic details which Joe failed to address. I don't expect there to be heavy recourse, but it would be nice if he apologizes publicly before February.   He's contributed to the careers of many talented artists. His support shouldn't end on a note like this.
 
Sources:
 
Forgotten Founding Father: Disco King Mario - Hip Hop Golden Age Hip Hop Golden Age
 
Hip-hop icon 'Disco King Mario' honored with street co-naming as part genre's 50th birthday celebrations

I'll have to take your word that hip-hop is "music".

(January 21, 2025 at 5:37 pm)PhCritique Wrote: During a podcast, rapper Fat Joe offended a lot of people. I don't intend on sharing what he specifically said. But many are expressing their disdain on countless YouTube platforms. Joe's comment has prompted me to look for the full context on what is currently an ongoing debate:
 
Based on what I understand now, Hip Hop is interchangeable. It's a genre of music which began when the earliest rap artists were recorded. And it's a movement or a culture of various activities including disk jockeying, improvised spoken word, dance battles, graffiti, block parties, enthused young children innovating these art forms and much more. 
 
Hip Hop is an identity for many individuals like KRS-One and Afrika Bambaata. 
 
According to Niya Falls, "Disco King Mario was an eminent DJ in the Bronx." The neighborhood respected him and he's "a major part of the creation of Hip Hop"(hiphopgoldenage)
 
On July 1st 2023, Rosedale Ave was co-named Disco King Mario Way. (News12 Brooklyn)
 
Hip Hop is also an identity for many people who witnessed Jim Crow laws and the harassment it caused to their loved ones. Additionally, many lived to witness its 50th birthday on the same year Mario Way was co-named. Hip Hop (not specifically rap music) started in this Jim Crow era and it's roots are settled earlier in a darker period.
 
So, is Fat Joe discrediting Hip Hop's lost and hidden figures? Are Hip Hop critics fair to scold him?
As far as I know, Fat Joe was unprofessional in his tone on the podcast. There's certainly a large community (including Bronx natives) who maintain historic details which Joe failed to address. I don't expect there to be heavy recourse, but it would be nice if he apologizes publicly before February.   He's contributed to the careers of many talented artists. His support shouldn't end on a note like this.
 
Sources:
 
Forgotten Founding Father: Disco King Mario - Hip Hop Golden Age Hip Hop Golden Age
 
Hip-hop icon 'Disco King Mario' honored with street co-naming as part genre's 50th birthday celebrations

A lot of things in the arts appear to have come out of nowhere. But if you take time to study the background and environment they came from, there are always precursors, foundations, roots.

Nothing comes from spontaneous generation. It's always evolution. 

And I am certainly no expert on Hip Hop and its related phenomena, but you can see what leads up to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoEX6g8itTw

In the above video, you can see the tap dance change into spinning on the floor, much like break dancing. 

In the one below, they tell a story in a talking blues style, that's not a million miles from rap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx0oU1OnHf8

As I say, this is not my field of expertise. But I've studied enough artists from enough different eras to see that everybody's work is simply an incremental advance on what came before.

The argument, insomuch as there is one, is whether hip hop is a product of black american culture..or "50/50" black american and puerto rican. Hip hop critics and cultural anthropologists are pointing out that while puerto ricans have greatly contributed to hip hop..just as they've greatly contributed to mailand culture in general..they were participators, enjoyers, and adopters..not the creators of the form. That comments like the whole 50% thing straddle the line between participation and appropriation. Not at all different from a white guy standing up there and saying that white people are 50/50 responsible for rap because beastie boys.

Figuring out where one genre of music or another came from is always a mess. There's always claimants, there's always students, and there's always glommers.

The real question is -- are you more concerned where it came from, or where it's going to? Shut up and play yer guitar ... or turntable ... or iPad module ... or whatever ... just Jesuspleaseus, give us some real music rather than this digitized horseshit. Play it in real time, forget clicktracks and autotune and SMPTE.

One of my favorite hiphop tracks of all time, no computers or sampling involved:





Perhaps the original hiphop?





Nah, it goes back further than that:

(January 22, 2025 at 3:06 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: One of my favorite hiphop tracks of all time, no computers or sampling involved:

Well, maybe that particular live version didn’t include samples, but the original definitely used samples:

(January 22, 2025 at 3:54 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: Well, maybe that particular live version didn’t include samples, but the original definitely used samples:

Right, which is why I posted that particular performance, and why I like it so.

(January 21, 2025 at 7:39 pm)Belacqua Wrote: If you take time to study the background and environment they came from, there are always precursors, foundations, roots.

(January 21, 2025 at 10:14 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: The argument, insomuch as there is one, is whether hip hop is a product of black american culture..or "50/50" black american and puerto rican.  Hip hop critics and cultural anthropologists are pointing out that while puerto ricans have greatly contributed to hip hop..

(January 22, 2025 at 3:06 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Figuring out where one genre of music or another came from is always a mess. There's always claimants, there's always students, and there's always glommers.

After sleeping on it and stepping back, I have to simplify this like The Valkyrie. It's music. Hip hop is about the music. The influences are much greater especially when addressed clearly as we have. 

Emotions are influential. They can increase productive discussions or produce some heat. The controversy (or what seems like controversy) regarding Fat Joe is a result of thoughtlessly referring to early Hip Hop artists as "broke N...s " And ever since then, a red herring has been developing. The issue appears to be his derogatory remark which was in Dec. But now, many are using this as an angle and it's trending. That's not hip hop. It's childish.

My issue is that Fat Joe was on a... battle rapper's platform.  Mistake #1. The 2nd was the expletive. The battle rap audience is filled with people ready to pull things out of context.

Besides the individuals here, I don't know how real adults feel about hip hop or rap. My expectations for the art forms have always been high.

I’m having a difficult time caring about hip hop. Nothing against it, it’s just not something on my radar.

Boru

I wouldn’t dare to put a percentage on how much of the origin of rap comes from one ethnicity or another, but I will say this: Coke La Rock is widely considered one of the first, if not the first rap MCs. And who do you think he counted as inspirations?





The answer is, The Last Poets, a group that included both black and Puerto Rican members.