(April 4, 2025 at 8:32 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(April 4, 2025 at 10:28 am)Alan V Wrote: Disillusionment yes, nihilism no -- at least from my perspective.  Just because we lose doesn't mean we were wrong.  Facts are still facts.

My particular brand of disillusionment and nihilism doesn't come from despairing about the facts of our world, it comes specifically from the fact that many millions of people here in America simply do not care about the facts. Do.Not.Care. It's demoralizing to be outvoted by the uninformed.

It's even more demoralizing when uninformed deem themselves enlightened but don't realize that they're voting against their own interests.

Movements tend to be effective in the following generation rather than on the powers that be during the period of the protest.
The only ones that are effective at the time are those that directly challenge the position of those in power, (eg. Poll Tax Riots)
More profound is the movement towards equality, from the Suffragettes, through Women's Lib and the Me Too groups to whatever comes next. These accelerated with the women in the munitions factories during the world wars and Bletchley Park effecting a far faster rate of change compared with generational pace during peacetime.
Now we see the anti-equality groups attacking rights for Trans people trying to brand themselves as Feminists despite standing directly opposed to the equality that Feminism stands for.
Personally I'd never give money to any political party on principle.
When Zelensky flew to London after that visit to Washington he was greeted with crowds waving Ukranian flags. That seemed to help his morale after the fiasco.

My protest is to give the finger to every cyberdork I see on the road.

(April 4, 2025 at 7:47 am)arewethereyet Wrote: A couple elections ago, I really pushed my daughter and her husband into voting.  Neither had prior to that.  I did have some help from their daughter who is paying quite a bit of attention to politics now.  

I'm old and unwell so marching at a rally isn't really in the cards for me.  But I vote and after tRump was elected again, I took down the flag from my house.  Once he is gone, if he's not replaced by someone as bad or worse, I will display it again.

This past election is the first time I threw money at the DNC.

None of what I have done is earth-shattering but I am hoping that a lot of people doing little things will eventually add up to enough.

This is maybe tangentially related to my post but... why take down the flag? Isn't it precisely at times when things are going against what you believe your country is about that you should lean into love of country? The right does it all the time, I never understand why the left doesn't try and reclaim or share custody of patriotism.

(April 4, 2025 at 9:21 am)Angrboda Wrote: I have mixed feelings about all the political contributions I made.  But having Trump only win by 1.5%, that keeps the conversation alive, and I think will matter down the line, even if it didn't matter in the way we hoped.

1.5% seems like a lot to me. I was technically alive when Regan got elected but we haven't seen anything close to that level of land slide since have we? Elections are now 50.xxxx% bs 49.xxxx% now. A 51% win seems big. Could be talking out my ass on all this.

(April 4, 2025 at 9:49 am)Jackalope Wrote: The needle moves slowly if at all.

It seems like it's moved very quickly to the right in short order. 

(April 4, 2025 at 9:49 am)Jackalope Wrote: I'm in agreement with Boru - waving signs and shouting slogans is far less effective than mass civil disobedience and property destruction.  Sometimes breaking the state monopoly on violence is required to effect change.

With the tech media (social media) and just strait up propaganda networks like Newsmax and Fox in their prime, doesn't any distruction just allow them to label the protest as violent at best and domestic terrorism at worst? How does that move the needle in any direction other than right when they can point to video of "thugs" harming "small business" and shout it over and over?

(April 4, 2025 at 10:56 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Facts don't matter.  They really don't.  You can spend 90 hrs a week for years maintaining parks or restoring wetlands, or netting floating garbage, or growing cheaper healthier environmentally conscious food.... and there's a very good chance that you will experience and reexperience that moment where you don't wonder whether or not your effort has value..you know it doesn't.  You can see it with your own eyes, or you've been explicitly told as much by your clients.  

That's what the liquor is for.

So just no hope. Collectively we are a herd and we all started running when some idiots took off towards the cliff?

(April 5, 2025 at 5:05 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: No.

I just plot to bring about human extinction...

Yikes. Don't get on your bad side.

(April 5, 2025 at 6:06 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:

(April 4, 2025 at 8:32 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: My particular brand of disillusionment and nihilism doesn't come from despairing about the facts of our world, it comes specifically from the fact that many millions of people here in America simply do not care about the facts. Do.Not.Care. It's demoralizing to be outvoted by the uninformed.

It's even more demoralizing when uninformed deem themselves enlightened but don't realize that they're voting against their own interests.

Are you describing the dunning kruger effect?

(April 7, 2025 at 9:30 am)Nanny Wrote: My protest is to give the finger to every cyberdork I see on the road.

You mean the trucks? They are ridiculous. However Tesla used to be a bastion of climate change action for the better, embraced by the left. My brother, more progressive in his politics than I, was an early supporter of Tesla with one of the first model 3's to roll off the line. He had the only EV in our small upstate NY (RED) community and took shit for it.

Now he lives in South Carolina, still with a Tesla Model 3, and gets a different reception form that very white very conservative neighborhood. One day he's a commie trader getting coal rolled, now he's a hero for supporting cuts to government spending. The fickleness of the people towards a brand and maybe more importantly its leader is on display with Elon and Tesla. My brother is the same progressive with an EV before DOGE and after. But how he's judged by this one aspect has changed drastically.