(April 16, 2025 at 9:17 am)Drew_2013 Wrote:

(April 16, 2025 at 6:31 am)Sheldon Wrote: I think you're right, who could have seen that coming. 


I bet they're bragging about how they debunked atheism right now, on some religious forum?

I tried to reset the debate from a different angle with a new post and though it grew to three pages fast, it was shut down as spam. Religious folk don't want me on their boards anymore than this group does. 

There is no need to debunk a belief that only manages to convince 5% of the population. I should spend time debunking Big Foot and UFO's.

Let's look at this...religious people aren't buying your schtick so you think it will work here?  Makes perfect sense. /s

You need a different hobby.

(April 16, 2025 at 9:23 am)Drew_2013 Wrote:

(April 15, 2025 at 2:40 pm)Alan V Wrote: Too many theists believe they have the inside track to inspired knowledge of the world (through their scriptures or the holy ghost or whatever).  Too many of them don't trust the experts anymore, since the experts tell them that counter-intuitive ideas are in fact correct.

Sometimes I think we are progressing too fast for our little ape-brains to keep up.  Other times I simply blame certain people for not doing their homework.

I've relied on what scientists have established and are reporting. I've quoted scientists and cut and pasted their findings. Not one quote from scripture from me.

Yes, but I wasn't referring to you but to theists in general.  

We atheists get it from all angles for simply NOT believing in any God or gods.  You wouldn't think our position would be that hard to understand, but most all theists who post in these discussions are very determined NOT to understand what we are saying -- you included this time.

We don't find what you take for sound arguments or evidence to be compelling. We think you are just as erroneous as you take us to be for believing in such stuff.

(April 15, 2025 at 6:42 am)Alan V Wrote:

(April 15, 2025 at 6:16 am)Sheldon Wrote: It's time Drew understood that probability is a scientific theory, not a subjective opinion, and the "this seems to involve long odds, that I have subjectively decided aren't possible, so I am going to insert an unevidenced deity, using inexplicable magic, from an archaic superstition", argument, is never going to pass muster with the scientific world, or anyone citing rational objections.

In general, theists keep promoting their philosophical arguments when cosmology long ago became a science.  Drew is just another case of Maslow's hammer.

They haven't caught up with the simple fact that science, again and again, has decisively shown that the way the universe actually works is counter-intuitive.

You have to be able to do the math, or at least to believe the people who can.

You folks are such faithful believers I believe you start boards like this just to re-affirm you faith. You convince yourselves there is overwhelming evidence against a Creator and solid evidence the universe and life was caused inadvertently. Yet only a pathetic number of people subscribe to atheism. Its not theists (Falwell or Swaggert) who are claiming we live in a multiverse its reputable scientists. When are you folks going to straighten these scientists out...explain about the water and the puddle. Obviously they just don't know about that, no one's explained it to them. You don't need an infinitude of universes to cause one ours...just like you don't need an infinitude of puddles. Just write them your puddle thesis and I'm sure they'll all retract their position on multiverse theory. They just need you people to show them the way...that's it...that's the ticket,

(April 16, 2025 at 9:17 am)Drew_2013 Wrote: Religious folk don't want me on their boards anymore than this group does.

If you have a problem with everybody else...

(April 16, 2025 at 9:49 am)Drew_2013 Wrote: You folks are such faithful believers I believe you start boards like this just to re-affirm you faith. You convince yourselves there is overwhelming evidence against a Creator and solid evidence the universe and life was caused inadvertently.

Your mind-reading act really hasn't improved.

Quote:Yet only a pathetic number of people subscribe to atheism.

And you wonder why we don't welcome your cheerful ray of sunshine back with a big party.

(April 16, 2025 at 9:49 am)Alan V Wrote:

(April 16, 2025 at 9:23 am)Drew_2013 Wrote: I've relied on what scientists have established and are reporting. I've quoted scientists and cut and pasted their findings. Not one quote from scripture from me.

Yes, but I wasn't referring to you but to theists in general.  

We atheists get it from all angles for simply NOT believing in any God or gods.  You wouldn't think our position would be that hard to understand, but most all theists who post in these discussions are very determined NOT to understand what we are saying -- you included this time.

It must be the same way with scientists who claim we live in a multiverse. They just have no idea how smart and insightful you people are. They obviously haven't heard the parable you folks preach about the puddle and the water and how that is a perfectly analogous to the fine-tuning of the universe. 

You are so full of it you think if I don't agree with your nonsense it must be because you're a poor misunderstood would be scientist. I hope you're working on your puddle and water thesis so you can publish a peer reviewed paper and the next thing you know Alan your name will right up their with Einstein, Borh's and Pauli's. Right there with the greats. Start working on your Nobel peace prize speech.

(April 16, 2025 at 9:49 am)Drew_2013 Wrote:

(April 15, 2025 at 6:42 am)Alan V Wrote: In general, theists keep promoting their philosophical arguments when cosmology long ago became a science.  Drew is just another case of Maslow's hammer.

They haven't caught up with the simple fact that science, again and again, has decisively shown that the way the universe actually works is counter-intuitive.

You have to be able to do the math, or at least to believe the people who can.

You folks are such faithful believers I believe you start boards like this just to re-affirm you faith. You convince yourselves there is overwhelming evidence against a Creator and solid evidence the universe and life was caused inadvertently. Yet only a pathetic number of people subscribe to atheism. Its not theists (Falwell or Swaggert) who are claiming we live in a multiverse its reputable scientists. When are you folks going to straighten these scientists out...explain about the water and the puddle. Obviously they just don't know about that, no one's explained it to them. You don't need an infinitude of universes to cause one ours...just like you don't need an infinitude of puddles. Just write them your puddle thesis and I'm sure they'll all retract their position on multiverse theory. They just need you people to show them the way...that's it...that's the ticket,

As I said, that's because the majority of people are intuitive thinkers, and that doesn't help when approaching physics and cosmology.

I do not like anthropic multiverse cosmology any more than Stephen Hawking did, and I find his own quantum cosmology hypothesis much more compelling.

(April 16, 2025 at 9:58 am)Paleophyte Wrote:

(April 16, 2025 at 9:49 am)Drew_2013 Wrote: You folks are such faithful believers I believe you start boards like this just to re-affirm you faith. You convince yourselves there is overwhelming evidence against a Creator and solid evidence the universe and life was caused inadvertently.

Your mind-reading act really hasn't improved.

Quote:Yet only a pathetic number of people subscribe to atheism.

And you wonder why we don't welcome your cheerful ray of sunshine back with a big party.

I don't wonder at all. I'm sure I'm a cold splash of water at an affirmation party. It's fairly obvious you don't encourage a dissenting point of view. Don't want to lose any of the few faithful.

(April 16, 2025 at 10:01 am)Drew_2013 Wrote:

(April 16, 2025 at 9:49 am)Alan V Wrote: Yes, but I wasn't referring to you but to theists in general.  

We atheists get it from all angles for simply NOT believing in any God or gods.  You wouldn't think our position would be that hard to understand, but most all theists who post in these discussions are very determined NOT to understand what we are saying -- you included this time.

It must be the same way with scientists who claim we live in a multiverse. They just have no idea how smart and insightful you people are. They obviously haven't heard the parable you folks preach about the puddle and the water and how that is a perfectly analogous to the fine-tuning of the universe. 

You are so full of it you think if I don't agree with your nonsense it must be because you're a poor misunderstood would be scientist. I hope you're working on your puddle and water thesis so you can publish a peer reviewed paper and the next thing you know Alan your name will right up their with Einstein, Borh's and Pauli's. Right there with the greats. Start working on your Nobel peace prize speech.

I can't remember ever using the puddle analogy offhand.  You need to differentiate between the people you are addressing.

To repeat, no one yet knows how the universe began.  Physicists and cosmologists have different hypotheses.  We atheists think the informed opinions of scientific experts more compelling than resorting to mythological creatures.

Ah back to his usual 

1. Falsely comparing us to religious people 

2. Falsely equating correctness to popularity ( It does matter if 00000000.1 of the population accepts something that has no bearing on who is correct) ( what's true is often unpopular )