(January 9, 2012 at 7:11 pm)Epimethean Wrote: I don't know about France, but whether they are technologically capable of getting out of the 20th century remains to be seen. Their military is certainly seeing some fallout from its past.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/0...S020120106

Come on, man. They're trying to turn the country into one of your "liberal" and "democratic" countries. 10 years ago, our army had it's prestige. They were the guardians of the republic, and Atatürk's reforms. Now, however, some punk-ass liberals have decided that this is undemocratic.
The AKP is forming policies to suit their tastes too. Ilker Başbuğ...Well, I never particularly liked him. To me(and to the Albanians), he represents the Albanian higher-rank hegemony of the late period Ottoman Army, something which did us no good, and he is an Albanian.
I'm fairly certain that he's out of touch with his roots, but I'm not sure if he's trying to gain new connections, for example, with Israel...
That matters little, though, he is, as the highest ranking general, although retired, a representative of the Turkish Army itself. And he's being accused of terrorism, the same thing that our army still continues to fight, and did so under him aswell.
This is outrageous. However, the AKP has the backing of the west.

Quote:Turkey, Fethullah Gulen community manages. The US-backed coup in Turkey in 1980, provided benefits to religious groups. Religion began to rise after the 1980 coup in Turkey. Fettullah Gulen community, the Islamic religious structure. The congregation was almost entirely into the hands of the judiciary in Turkey. For this, the secular military, journalists, professors, the arrest is normal. Fettullah Gulens, also lives in Pennsylvania in the United States. CIA, FBI, etc. gets support organizations.
Objectives to Turkey is to become the state religion.

This is quite untrue.
The coup in 1980 was certainly not backed by the US. The coup was done by the army, however, it was done with popular support of the people.
In Turkey, no coup has ever been made without having the support of the people. At that time, there was so much political violence going on out in the streets, and the officials were not doing anything, and the army had warned them a lot of times before.

And finally on september 12th, 1980, our glorious army had assumed command. They had stormed the streets, and enforced a curfew.
The local authorities, the police were behind most of the prison violence that went on. But the anarchy stopped. The streets were safe again.
Ordinary people could live out their lives again.
But it's general communist propaganda in Turkey that this coup was "US backed", as to justify their failure and the trouble they have caused, and blame it all on some other guy.
It's certain that the US had a hand in faciliating the violence, however, so did the Soviet Union. The US is not more responsible for the violence than the Soviets.

However, with the death of the soviet union, the communists of our country have found themselves within a dilemma. Their only hope was just dead before their eyes, and they needed something else to keep their vision going. Some eventually gave up, some did not.
So they chose the US imperialism as their enemy image to keep the scene going. But it's obvious, that it's going to lead nowhere either.

Fetullah Gülen is certainly backed by the US. But at the time of the coup, he held no real power. It's true that religiousity increased after the coup, as to curb communist and nationalist tendencies, and it was quite the mistake, as it did a lot of damage to our own natioanlistic and panturkist ideals, but it served it's purpose for "some time".
Anything beyond that is really irrelevant. However now, Fetullah Gülen is taking over the government, and it's institutions with his minions. And he does so while sitting firmly in America, backed by the CIA and US national interests.
We nationalists oppose these, social democrats and communists do so aswell, but obviously, the liberals do not.

Always good to read up on more obscure religions.

(January 10, 2012 at 10:08 am)frankiej Wrote: Always good to read up on more obscure religions.

There is another religion that is closely tied to it.
Burkhanism.

Perhaps your country should stop accepting US handouts, and stop borrowing money from the US to buy US arms? I'm sure turkish guns and turkish armor could secure your nation. Then you wouldn't be stuck as a vassal to the good ole U.S. of A (but you'd probably just get overrun by an arab nation).

(January 10, 2012 at 5:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Perhaps your country should stop accepting US handouts, and stop borrowing money from the US to buy US arms? I'm sure turkish guns and turkish armor could secure your nation. Then you wouldn't be stuck as a vassal to the good ole U.S. of A (but you'd probably just get overrun by an arab nation).

Well, that was actually what we wanted to do when we founded this republic.
But then, some libtard upstart asshole called Adnan Menderes.
He said to his peers; "Our future shall not be of an industrial people, and we should stop producing things like cars and planes, but instead focus on agriculture, and buy them from outside."
He closed the plan factory, took loans from the USA, and ridiculed the army, and impoverished army members by cutting off most of their income, impoverished teachers, and etc. along with doing a lot more things that would make our economy "liberal" so to say, modelled after the capitalist economical model of America.
He was promptly deposed and hanged by a coup, and the man who came after the guy who came instead of him(Celal Bayar), instantly reinstated the previous attempts of bringing bout an industry, but we were still under attack from pro-US agents, who would not have us our own industry, and the papers ridiculed our attempts of creating our first automobile.
We created one, however, thanks to the asshole media, it received little attention, and the car project was abandoned, despite the car that was brought into existence, it was somewhat ruled out that we could not mass-produce these cars. On the contrary, with the right policies, every Turk would be able to own his own car, if we had truly devoted our national spirit into it.

Quote:but you'd probably just get overrun by an arab nation.

That's quite unlikely. Arabs are nothing in comparison with us. Neither are the Iranians. We bury those cockroaches.

That doesn't sound like our system at all, you also seem to have your own definition of "liberal".

On this one count, you should probably avoid the chest beating nonsense. Your country bought US weapons because we build excellent weapons, and those without them are likely to lose to those with them, end of. I agree though, Arabs couldn't overrun your country, because we handed you a few nukes..lol. (translation: vassal-state..you know, if you moved here you could be a citizen instead of just a subject....)

(January 10, 2012 at 6:38 pm)Rhythm Wrote: That doesn't sound like our system at all, you also seem to have your own definition of "liberal".

On this one count, you should probably avoid the chest beating nonsense. Your country bought US weapons because we build excellent weapons, and those without them are likely to lose to those with them, end of. I agree though, Arabs couldn't overrun your country, because we handed you a few nukes..lol.

Well, let's say that the definition of "liberal" has a different connection here.
No, we have not bought your weapons because your weapons are so awesome.
We bought them because we were in the NATO. That's it. Defense contracts were handed out by pro-US politicians, and US arms manufacturers made fortunes with these.
And well, during the cold war, that was necessary too, however, I'd have us out of the NATO as soon as possible right now. It certainly serves not to protect us, but to drive us into conflicts that do not concern us. To hell with the euro-atlantic alliance.
We'll make our own arms, and we do, as a matter of fact. Buying weapons from others, in particular, fighter jets, that automatically see US and NATO targets(Israel too, without being a NATO ally) as "allies" and won't fire on them, unless we get the code. This is proposterous. I don't know why we would buy such pieces of shit by any margain. I'd rather spend a fortune and build our own fighter jets in our own factories, rather than buy a foreign jet fighter we can't even control.
Thankfully, we now have the codes.

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Besides, why would we need your nukes anyways? You need these nukes to be here, in the NATO bases you had build over our country, which I'd close and kick your asses out in a minute if it were up to me...

Turkish Air Superiority Fighter
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Turkish Air Superiority Fighter

A really bad attempt at trolling. I only laugh.

Well, it is pretty funny. Besides, the Turks won't be building fighters or bombers superior to what the U.S. is selling anytime in the next decade or ten.