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February 1, 2012 at 6:07 pm (This post was last modified: February 1, 2012 at 6:09 pm by Doubting Thomas.)
(February 1, 2012 at 1:55 pm)Mitja Wrote: USING LOGIC AND REASON ISNT ENOUGH,YOU HAVE TO BE AN DICK TO EVERY ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK LIKE YOU
You'll learn differently once you grow up. Being a dick to everyone who doesn't think like you is being just like the bigoted fundie theists who persecute others just because they have different beliefs. I've seen enough of it, whether it be religious assholes trying to force their beliefs upon everyone else, or people talking about politics. Once the world's population realizes that everyone else doesn't have to think exactly like they do, the world will be a better place. Being a dick to anyone with different beliefs will just keep people from wanting to espouse your beliefs.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
February 2, 2012 at 6:20 am (This post was last modified: February 2, 2012 at 6:21 am by tackattack.)
(February 1, 2012 at 12:53 pm)Mitja Wrote:
(January 31, 2012 at 6:13 pm)KichigaiNeko Wrote:
Mitja Wrote:ok need to re post this-we need an new state that forbids religion .
If we are going to act like some pussies we arent going to achieve atheism on this world. WARNING: If you arent an atheist you will not be tolerated by this user
Oh Dear!
Well it looks like we have our first red-neck Atheist.... Had to happen I suppose
you totally missed my point there, This world will be an nicer, peacefull, happier world without religion
imagine no muslims making terrorist attacks,no christians bombarding abortion clinics ,...
But sadly people arent letting go from religion, they still want to be leave in maked up stories.
If we are going to tolerate their be leave we will never abandon religion. Just look around you and you will see how many problems religion does
example:
you dont get on with your neighbor cuz he bleaves in an flying spaghetti monster and you belave in scientific proven phenomenon.
if we would all be atheists we would all be friends
why do i hate religious people:
well its like an personal storie those ididots in my town are BLACK MAILING people who are atheists. They make fun out of us and they are searching ways that they can make us even more miserable. This is why i dont tolerate anyone who beleaves in god. They are all the same to me.
I also hang out with friends who relly dont like religion.
also my parents are hardcore atheists this also had an big influence on me
and so on.
Imagine a world without the hatred of religion.. hm,mmm.. anyone up for football.. oh and a brutal group killing. Human's are nasty and violent creatures with or without religion. Yes religion has hid behind God to excuse mass genocide. Holding those responsible accountable helps society and religion. Obviously you are very biased, per your own admission. What I thought was really funny was the fact.....
Quote: you make fun out of us and they are searching ways that you can make us even more miserable. This is why i dont tolerate anyone who is a bigot. They are all the same to me.
Bolding are my words. Thought I'd hand you a bit of a mirror. You're once step worse then those you despise though, because you do it hypocritically and they're just ignorant generally.
Perhaps I need to reread the forum rules on obvious bigotry... wait NVM you're an atheist.
(February 1, 2012 at 1:10 pm)Abracadabra Wrote:
(February 1, 2012 at 5:50 am)tackattack Wrote:
(January 31, 2012 at 5:29 pm)Abracadabra Wrote: Because actually, while believers in Christianity may not realize it, their continued belief in Christianity actually loans merit and support to Islam. Because after all, they are both based on the same foundational doctrines.
So when Christians support Christianity they are actually supporting the God of Islam at the same time without even realizing it.
By Definition Christians follow Christ Jesus and predominantly trinitarian, Muslims do not follow Jesus, nor do Jews. Jehovah's witnesses aren't trinitarian so they could be considered fringe Christian on that doctrine alone. I think your understanding of the Abrahamic religions is infantile and incomplete. I welcome your opinion, but you know they say opinions are like ...
By who's definition of Christianity?
You accuse me of having an infantile and incomplete understanding of the Abrahamic religoins, yet here you are acting as though the "Christ" of Christianity can somehow be separated from the God of Abraham of the Old Testament.
That, my friend is utterly impossible. The whole point of the New Testament is to try to claim that Jesus was the miraculous Son of the God of Abraham sent by this God through a virgin birth to become the sacrificial lamb to pay for the "sins" of mankind.
This is actually a great folly of Christianity itself. The so-called followers of this religion (i.e. people who claim to be "Christians") try very hard to make Jesus into GOD, and basically reject the idea that the God of Abraham is actually the GOD of this religion.
No, I'm sorry tackattack, but if anyone's misunderstanding Christianity and the Abraham religions here it's you.
You cannot simultaneously claim that Jesus was the "Son of the God of Abraham", and then try to pretend like being a Christian has nothing to do with the God of Abraham. It has EVERYTHING to do with it. In fact, even as a "Christian" you are supposed to love the God of Abraham with all your mind, heart, and soul. NOT Jesus!
This is the folly of Christianity. They try to make Jesus into God and use Jesus as an excuse to pretend that the God of Abraham doesn't matter anymore.
~~~~
Even according to the gospels, Jesus himself did not approve, nor condone the immoral teachings of the Torah that had been attributed to the "God of Abraham" Thus Jesus was a blasphemer of the God of Abraham renouncing the teachings and directives of that God.
The God of Abraham taught that people should seek revenge as in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Jesus renounced that teaching and instead suggested that people should not seek revenge and should instead turn the other cheek and forgive those who trespass against them.
That's a complete rejection of the teachings and WORD of the God of Abraham.
Jesus also refuted the directive that we should be judging others and stoning them to death as sinners. Jesus taught not to judge others.
Again that's complete and utterly blaspheme against the WORD of the God of Abraham from the Torah.
Jesus was most likely a Jewish Mahayana Buddhist (that was the most popular form of Buddhism in those days). The things that Jesus taught are far more in line with the teachings of Mahayana Buddhism than they are with the teachings of the God of Abraham.
So even according to the New Testament Jesus himself blasphemed against the teachings of the Torah and the "Word" of the God of that religion.
You speak about being naive, or infantile with respect to the Abrahamic religions, yet if you think for one second that you can separate Jesus from the God of Abraham in this region you are the one who has absolutely no understanding of the religion.
You cannot separate Jesus from the God of Abraham and maintain his divine status as the "Son of God". That's utter nonsense.
It's the God of Abraham that you are supposed to LOVE with all your mind, body, and soul NOT Jesus!
And clearly Jesus could not have been the God of Abraham since he totally disagreed with the mentality and directives of that mythological God. Jesus actually rejected the teachings of the God of Abraham and instead taught the more intelligent moral ethics of Mahayana Buddhism (or at least their precise equivalent if by accident).
Jesus did not support the immoral teachings of the God of Abraham.
So you're the one who needs to study up on the Abrahamic Religions my friend. You're not supposed to be worshiping Jesus, you're suppose to be worshiping the God of Abraham. The same God who hates homosexuals, supports male-chauvinism, slavery, and judging people and stoning them to death even though he had commanded people not to kill.
It's an asinine religion. Sorry but that's just the TRUTH of reality.
A God who commands people not to kill and then instructs them to judge others and stone sinners to death? And even their unruly children?
The Abrahamic religion is stupider than Greek Mythology, IMHO.
And Jesus was most likely a misunderstood Mahayana Buddhist who actually spoke out against this utter nonsense taught by the Torah.
According to the authors of the New Testament. Jesus rejected all that crap. He couldn't have been the "Son" of the God of Abraham, because he didn't even agree with the teachings attributed to that God. He taught the exact opposite moral values. And what he taught was already being taught by the Mahayana Buddhists long before Jesus was ever born.
If Jesus could be a "God" in his own right maybe the religion could be made to work. But that wouldn't be "Christianity".
In Christianity Jesus is nothing without the God of Abraham. The Christian Jesus stands on the shoulders of the God of Abraham. Take away the God of Abraham and Jesus has no legs of his own to stand on in these fables.
I understand this religion to the hilt.
Clearly you don't.
Well first you're misrepresenting my position. I do not claim that you can seperate Jesus from the Abrahamic God. It would be difficult to do since he was both a Jewish Rabbi and claimed to be the Son of the Abrahamic God. You obviously don't understand any of the precepts of Christianity as a popular verse atheists here love to quote is Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Many times he is reffered to as perfect and blameless of the law of Moses. He did have issue with Pharasitical traditions that were used to condemn and seperate Jews and gentiles. He taught the laws, every jit and tittle, and admonished other to do so. However they weren't for condemnation but the essence of the laws we life, which was the new covenant. He didn't support the pharisees's use of the Laws of Moses. He wasn't a buddhist, that's what is assinine and trollish. He did give all praise to the Father and Christians worship the God of Abraham, but they believe the only way to get to the Father is through Jesus the Son.
I don't need to speak to much more of your post as you don't grasp even the most fundamental pieces of Christianity. I will answer one of your questions though and I won't even use the Bible.
Quote:Chris·tian noun \ˈkris-chən, ˈkrish-\
Definition of CHRISTIAN
1a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
I am having a hard time understanding why the wizard is debating one of our better versed xtians on what a true xtian is and believes. That is some funny shit, especially peppered as it is with the posts of the Totalitathiest and his hate speech.
Wizards know more than other people, even about other people. That's one of their magical abilities (after lvl14).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(February 1, 2012 at 1:21 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Just listen to what I say: totalitarian douches can fuck off.
dude you dont have nothing else to say strange.
I thought I would get in some 'being a dick' practice to see how it goes. Are you saying it wasn't a good tack to take?
(February 1, 2012 at 1:26 pm)Mitja Wrote: I think that you dont know how to read as well i said that the only thing i liked about soviet union is that the state was under atheist government.
Im not an big fan of dictators myself but lets dont go to off topic here
No, I get it, you're only a big fan of dictators using the apparatus of the state to impose atheism on the religious. You're not a totalitarian at all then, I guess.
February 2, 2012 at 5:01 pm (This post was last modified: February 2, 2012 at 5:06 pm by Abracadabra.)
(February 2, 2012 at 6:20 am)tackattack Wrote: Chris·tian noun \ˈkris-chən, ˈkrish-\
Definition of CHRISTIAN
1a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ
For example the very first question I can put to you is "What constitutes the teachings of Jesus".
Most "Christians" tend to support the entire Christian "biblical cannon" as the "Word of God". That's far more than merely professing a belief in the teachings of Jesus.
Moreover, about 75% of the New Testament actually constitutes the teachings of Paul, not Jesus.
In fact, if you reduce the Bible to only references of teachings made specifically by Jesus himself it would be a quite small cannon.
It would basically only contain the four gospels of Mark, Mathew, Luke, and John. And even much of those documents are nothing more than the narrative hearsay of the authors who wrote them. By the time you weed out all the background narrative hearsay and opinions about what Jesus might have meant and get down to actual verses that are supposedly regurgitated quotes of Jesus you don't have much left.
Finally, even those regurgitated quotes are highly suspicious since they are just the hearsay gossip of men who are claiming what this man Jesus might have said.
That's pretty shaky right there.
Also, where do these gospels ever claim that Jesus taught anyone that they should believe, or accept, the entire Torah as the official infallible "Word of God".
They don't. No such teaching exists.
Where does Jesus prophecize the some guy name Saul/Paul will come at a later date to finish his message and ministry?
He doesn't.
Yet I would think that if this was in God's plan he would have certainly made it clear that we should listen to the teachings of this guy named Paul as though he speaks for Jesus.
This is baloney. It's that simple. Much of the teachings in the Bible that are attributed to "Jesus" never even came from Jesus in the first place according to this very cannon of gossip.
So attempting to define a "Christian" as nothing more than a person who professes a belief in the teachings of Jesus isn't saying much.
I could easily qualify as a Christian myself based on that definition.
Jesus never taught anyone that he was born of a virgin. So you certainly wouldn't need to believe that.
Jesus never claimed to be the Son of the God of Abraham. So you wouldn't need to believe that.
Jesus never taught anyone that they need to believe that the Torah was the "Word of God". So you wouldn't need to believe that.
Jesus never taught anyone that he was going to send Paul to finish his teachings and ministry. So you wouldn't need to believe over 75% of the New Testament.
You wouldn't need to believe that Jesus rose form the dead, etc.
You wouldn't need to believe much at all really.
My belief that Jesus was a misunderstood Mahayana Buddhist who actually taught against the immoral teachings of the God of Abraham would suffice as a "Belief in the teachings of Jesus". Thus by your superficial definition I would qualify as a "Christian" without even believing that Jesus was any special "Son of God" or that he was on a suicide mission to pay for he sins of mankind. I wouldn't need to have any belief in the God of Abraham or the Old Testament at all. And I could probably toss out the vast bulk of the New Testament as being unreliable hearsay gossip that really has nothing at all to do with the so-called "teachings of Jesus".
And I would be totally within rational rights to even highly question the verbatim validity of the hearsay quotes that even had been attributed to Jesus himself.
The "teachings of Jesus"?
What precisely would that even entail?
The gospels claim to "quote" Jesus as having taught that if any man hears his words and does not believe he will not judge them for this.
Yet, as a narrative opinion John proclaims that anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus is condemned already because they don't believe in the name of the Son of God. That's in total contradiction with what he claims that Jesus actually taught.
So who should you believe? John, or Jesus?
Christian - A moron who believes that an all-benevolent God can simultaneously be a hateful jealous male-chauvinistic pig. Wiccan - The epitome of cerebral evolution having mastered the magical powers of the universe and is in eternal harmony with the mind of God. Atheist - An ill-defined term that means something different to everyone who uses it.
~~~~~ Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. Clearly Jesus (a fictitious character or otherwise) will forgive people if they merely know not what they do For the Bible Tells us so!
February 2, 2012 at 6:50 pm (This post was last modified: February 2, 2012 at 6:52 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Would a similar definition for "buddhist" be equally as shaky? Muslim? Asatru? They're all equally accessible to criticism (on those grounds which you chose).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
February 2, 2012 at 7:05 pm (This post was last modified: February 2, 2012 at 8:23 pm by Michelle_Patton.)
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
That sums up my opinion on this topic.
Quote:YOU HAVE TO BE AN DICK TO EVERY ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK LIKE YOU
Sounds like something a fundie xtian would say....
"No-one who decides that scientific evidence is not for him and that his own experience or the stories of others is the be all and end all of deciding what's true ever has the right to call people searching for reliable, repeatable evidence narrow-minded. That is hypocrisy of the most laughable kind." Derren Brown - Tricks of the Mind.
(February 2, 2012 at 6:50 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Would a similar definition for "buddhist" be equally as shaky?
Oh absolutely. Buddhism has so many different philosophies it wouldn't even work to define a Buddhist as one who follows the teaching of Buddha.
Which Buddha?
Some people aren't even aware that there are many different Buddhas in the various forms of Buddhism. There are actually hundreds of different Buddhas.
Siddhartha Gautama is without a doubt the most famous, and often the one who is cited for having popularized the religion. But there are many others.
In fact, Christians might be interested in Amida Buddha since Amida Buddha is much like Jesus. The Amida Buddha offers salvation as pure grace. All you need to do is accept the gift of everlasting life offered by Amida Buddha and he will accept you into his kingdom of everlasting paradise. Not unlike the concept of the grace that Jesus supposedly offers along with acceptance into his heavenly kingdom.
However before you get too excited about this, I might add that this form of Buddhism was actually created by Buddhists who had been exposed to Christianity. So it's obviously a copy-cat religion, IMHO.
Christian - A moron who believes that an all-benevolent God can simultaneously be a hateful jealous male-chauvinistic pig. Wiccan - The epitome of cerebral evolution having mastered the magical powers of the universe and is in eternal harmony with the mind of God. Atheist - An ill-defined term that means something different to everyone who uses it.
~~~~~ Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. Clearly Jesus (a fictitious character or otherwise) will forgive people if they merely know not what they do For the Bible Tells us so!
