(February 19, 2012 at 8:38 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Except it wasn't just JEWS that died in the holocaust, but also many other groups including homosexuals, gypsies and other undesireables. What then?

I saw a picture with a transcript of a bit of this on Facebook. I'd like to have something more intelligent to say at 7:40 AM but the fact is all I could think about was that I clearly could "hear" Freeman's voice reading his bits. So I remembered this picture:

I read it with the internal voice of bett boop just for yucks.

Boop boop be doop.

Im not suprised on bit you posted this...

Funny how you also have no problem with people putting "whites only" signs on their stores as well.

Same tactics that they use here in the American south... just come close to that line, but never cross it.

(February 19, 2012 at 8:55 am)Tiberius Wrote:

(February 19, 2012 at 8:32 am)bozo Wrote: He is saying if you stop talking about racism then it doesn't exist. Utter simplistic nonsense!

No, he didn't say that. He was asked "How do we get rid of racism?", and his answer was "Stop talking about it". His underlying point being that if you stop treating people as though they were different (i.e. constantly referring to people by their skin colour) then our children will grow up in a world where there will be no such thing as a "white man" or a "black man", there will just be "man".

It may suit you to think Morgan Freeman has the answer to eradicating racism by not talking about it, but I don't agree it is that simple. Like it or not, people come in many varieties and as night follows day, prejudice, intolerance and outright racism result.
I can well understand the wish that if colour is taken out the equation and all become " man " then hey presto we become a brotherhood and the Age of Aquarius is achieved. But, sorry, that isn't the real world. In the real world no magic wand is available. Much effort, argument, education and ( you will hate this ) legislation is required to counter racist ideology.

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(February 19, 2012 at 9:29 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Okay, shower's done - here's my 2 cents.

It's not enough to say we need to have these "months" in order to learn about Black History...or Jewish history. Or whatever. I promise you: I didn't learn SQUAT outside of a normal historical context during black history month. There were some posters on the wall, but it's a placating mechanism. Give someone a day or a month in which to "raise awareness" and you probably won't have to do anything for a long time. Last year "the blacks" down here were up in arms because we used Martin Luther King Jr Day as a make-up day after all the shitty ice and snow we had - PLUS extending the school year (as in, there were no more days they COULD add to the school year, so a federal holiday had to be used - one in which kids were likely going to be home playing their X-boxes, not visiting the local museum, as only govt employees have off that day which constitutes a minimum of the NC parental population who might take their kids around to such places. Just being honest here - this includes all races. I didn't have off that day regardless).

Anyway, my point is: if you're going to argue that we need to have these awareness months in order to be sure these things never happen again, why don't you take a look at what would ACTUALLY help? Teaching our children to NOT be apathetic about government and social injustice. History is NOT taught in VA schools (at least) in such a way that would encourage children to take an active part in their government to avoid ills that would take away rights. You want the Holocaust not to happen again? You teach your children not to be apathetic about the real causes behind the demise of their former government and not to allow people to slowly gobble up their freedoms (of the press and the like) in order to spread propaganda and consolidate power. You don't allow people like Hitler with an obvious agenda to do what he did. You teach science in your schools so people realize that there isn't a difference between races and religions. You EDUCATE them - truly educate. That is the way to get rid of racism and barbarity.

When I was 10-16, what I learned about the Holocaust at Sunday school was vastly more bloody, horrific and in depth than I ever learned about in regular school. Probably because it happened "to us" and not to most of the children's families living around me, but the fact remains - the school never discussed the violence humans enact against humans except in a watered down format. They don't want to offend anyway just as much as they want to placate everyone. There was little access to "first sources" - like letters from former slaves to their masters, or actually studying Fredrick Douglas's writings. My father went ape-shit during one year of school because they were teaching us from books written by people in Spanish countries that had fallen to fascism and communism and god forbid the liberal school board teach us what it was like to live in such conditions and expose us to the rest of the world. We didn't even have real access or introduction to the writings of our founding fathers - WHICH MIGHT END THIS CHRISTIAN NATION BULLSHIT!!

This is why I can't have kids - I would be a nightmare for the PTA and school board. I can't fucking stand their pandering.

I'm not arguing in favour of these " months ". I am neither black nor jewish, nor do I care to criticise if either or indeed any ethnic grouping desires them. I don't really care how the history is delivered, AS LONG AS IT IS AND IT IS AUTHENTIC.

(February 19, 2012 at 3:06 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Same tactics that they use here in the American south... just come close to that line, but never cross it.

But there is a line.

I want to have a geek history month.

Quote:I don't really care how the history is delivered, AS LONG AS IT IS AND IT IS AUTHENTIC.

Ah, you mean"true" or "real" history. Who gets to decide? You?

No true Scotsman fallacy..


PS I don't always agree with Morgan Freeman, but the man has dignitas; I love to hear him talk.

(February 19, 2012 at 5:27 pm)Napoleon Wrote:

(February 19, 2012 at 3:06 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Same tactics that they use here in the American south... just come close to that line, but never cross it.

But there is a line.

And I dont like people getting too close to it. there is a reason why that hostory month was created. And yes, as far as I am concerned there should also be "white history month" as well.

Since when is focusing on certain things in education considered a bad thing?

why not a Christian history month? Lets be open minded people. both the good neutral and bad about it. Same with atheist history month.

I have ZERO problem with schools picking months to focus on curriculum (which is ALL that this is about by the way). March can be Jewish, Native american, and Australian aboriginal history month. February can be American black, Breast cancer awareness, and capitalist history month...

In other words...what is the problem with picking months for educators to focus on certain curriculum?

My answer...none....unless, of course, you want to show disdane for a certain group. Black history month has ALWAYS been a focus of hate in America. They dont complain about any of the other history mmonths... and they always find the odd black man who thinks that history months are off sounding in order to back them up.

Wouldnt you like a gay history month? An atheist history month? Wouldnt society be enriched by studying such a wide variety?

Darwins birthday is in February. Why not a biological/evolution history month the same time American black history month happens?

Honestly people. Education is a GOOd thiing...not something to bicker over...especially when BLACK history month is the one that majorly gains the complaints.

(February 19, 2012 at 6:07 pm)padraic Wrote:

Quote:I don't really care how the history is delivered, AS LONG AS IT IS AND IT IS AUTHENTIC.

Ah, you mean"true" or "real" history. Who gets to decide? You?

No true Scotsman fallacy..


PS I don't always agree with Morgan Freeman, but the man has dignitas; I love to hear him talk.

I mean history taught authentically and with no bias attached. Hell you are as old as me...do you remember how history was taught when you were a schoolboy?
I hate the advert Freeman does ( for some finance company? )

Quote:I mean history taught authentically and with no bias attached.

I know that's what you meant. In my experience there is no such thing,there are only differences in degree.

I actually had a wonderful history teacher,in year 11. History was my best subject.



PS I never buy ANYTHING soley on the basis of a paid endorsement ,from a celebrity or anyone else.

(February 20, 2012 at 3:23 am)padraic Wrote:

Quote:I mean history taught authentically and with no bias attached.

I know that's what you meant. In my experience there is no such thing,there are only differences in degree.

I agree. In the history of the Netherlands, the Dutch are taught that the Belgians wanted to be independent and we negotiated and let them get that status (its in our national curriculum that way). The Belgians however are taught that they fought fierce battles and rose up against the tyrants of Holland. The truth is most likely somewhere in the middle. The Belgians did indeed fight for their independence, and when the nobility from Holland saw that it would take too many resources to strike down this uprising they reluctantly agreed. Brabant and Limburg as provinces were divided between the Netherlands and Belgium, and an agreement was signed in London to ensure that the port of Antwerp would be kept accessible by the Dutch without imposing a toll on the ships on the way to and from the Belgian port, in return the Belgians would pay the Dutch for keeping the waterway maintained.