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For Black History Month
#41
RE: For Black History Month
Okay, let me try to clarify this:

First of all, I didn't express my last point to my satisfaction. I'm not stupid or blind, and obviously comparing one race/religion with blacks in America is pretty retarded, as no other race were traded as slaves. Point against me there, but the point I was trying to make is this: there are also successful blacks in this country - people who didn't let racism get them down, who live good lives of many different sorts. There are latinos and other racial groups who do as well - and they definitely don't have the focus of a month directed at them - a month might be designated, but no one's learning Mexican history outside of a world history curriculum.

People who refuse to let themselves be bogged down by race or religion and pursue an education to the best of their ability, who learn to be multi-cultured and not focused on the color of their skin and how it gets them down, or feel guilty about it, or what sort of genitals they have and how it inhibits them from doing their job - they fucking get ahead. If religious or racial or gender ideals were REALLY the important consuming factor in their life they wouldn't strive to be part of this country. They strive DESPITE them, because for every one group or subset you have in this country, you have someone else who hates them for dumbshit, or not so dumbshit, reasons.

I'm against things like affirmative action and I find the idea of cultural "months" in education ludicrous because I think they are band-aids, and distract people from the truth: that humans have the barest percentage of a difference between them that alters their outward appearance - something a good science class could blow a kid's mind with. Instead of "you're black, I'm white" how about "wow - this tiny gene makes you a different color than me - flipping one switch does that much? Cool! What else can they do?" I figured this out when I was 12, Rev. 12. I'm not the smartest or the only person to have come to this conclusion, and I do think that more people don't say it because they get drowned out by the fuckwads who want their band-aid.

Second: people who shout about anyone learning anything outside of their culture are a loud minority.

I never heard anyone bitching about its existence in my school - except for the fact when assemblies WERE held for Black history, in particular, speakers would act as if slavery still existed in this country. It does, but not plantation slavery, and it's multi-cultural. Everyone else was offended - slave owners have been dead for years now, and we were their great-great-etc grandchildren - and most of us would never own or trade slaves and found it offensive. It felt like being blamed for the sins of our fathers. It's not our fault, and the more we teach the similarities between people, the less reasons people will have for xenophobia.

"We used to be really shitty towards these people, but now we don't think that way and we're working to make it possible for everyone to receive a good education."

Don't make a big deal about someone's accident of birth, and focus instead on what they bring to the table. Discuss how things REALLY happened with as many primary sources as possible and less of the teacher yakking and more of the kids TALKING about it.

The complaints are partially from assholes. They're also partially from people like me (and I won't speak for others here) who think that women, and blacks, and other races and religions, don't have it as bad as they used to and they should be absorbed into this great country as another puzzle piece that makes up a map of us hopefully staying on top in the world as a place of dreams that can become realities.

My problem is that it's not enough to devote a month to some group or other, as I've stated before, and if you're teaching history properly, then it's unnecessary at best.
For the record, my entire complaint rests with the way history is taught, and not the arbitrary naming of a day to make someone or other happy. If I have a complaint with naming a month or day, it's exactly because it becomes a bandaid, not an educational tool. I'm merely stating why other people might have a complaint without it necessarily being a product of racism. Name days or weeks or months whatever the hell you want. But don't expect me to find such a practice actually useful without the practical application that should go behind it with or without the name.
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#42
RE: For Black History Month
(February 20, 2012 at 11:37 am)Napoleon Wrote:
(February 20, 2012 at 11:28 am)reverendjeremiah Wrote: So why the complaints?

Because a WW2 history month isn't dividing people by race the same as a 'black history' month is. You're either blind as a bat or intentionally disingenuous if you can't see the blatant difference.
Right...ww2 only divides people on politics and race. Oh yeah, how about the nazi death camps when WW2 comes up. Some of the people think the jews lied about the holocaust. How about Axis Japan considering themselves the pure bred orientals? How about the racist japanese concentration camps in America. How about the Japanese calling the atomic bomb a terrorist attack?

but no..WW2 doesnt divide people on racial issues except when WW2 divides people on racial issues.

Im blind as a bat or disingenius?

So tell me something...how come I have never, in my life, heard anyone complain about pacific island history month? How about Irish history month? Never heard a single person complain about it.

But BLACK history month...oh no...theres always a big stink about that one.
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#43
RE: For Black History Month
So your whole point is that racism still exists. Granted.

But Morgan Freeman's point was not that it does or doesn't exist.
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#44
RE: For Black History Month
Quote:First of all, I didn't express my last point to my satisfaction. I'm not stupid or blind, and obviously comparing one race/religion with blacks in America is pretty retarded, as no other race were traded as slaves. Point against me there, but the point I was trying to make is this: there are also successful blacks in this country - people who didn't let racism get them down, who live good lives of many different sorts. There are latinos and other racial groups who do as well - and they definitely don't have the focus of a month directed at them - a month might be designated, but no one's learning Mexican history outside of a world history curriculum.
Jewish history month was started on 2006 by the Bush administration. I support it, because focused education such as this helps educate about the acheivements of those who were marginalized. It helps to fight racism. If it "divides", it only does so by being a vehicle for pointing out such a division, and as such SHOULD be educated about even more so. Ignoring a divide does nothing to stop the divide.

i to have a point against me on this thread. I missed the absence of "R" in Geek history month and saw it as Greek history month. A mistake any of us could have made, but I do not excuse myself from the fuck up. Turned out there is also a geek history month as well. I have nothing against Leo, nor was I trying to be mean to him, but if he had of googled it he would have found out that geek history month does in fact exist. Sorry about that. Maybe I should go and get those bifocals soon. Doesnt take away from Tiberius opposing history months, yet supporting a history month. turns out there are history months for about anything and everything.
As far as latinos, Arizona has been in the news for removing latino studies from the curriculum. When the students protested it, they were punished by being forced to clean the bathrooms of schools. How can people learn maxican history if the state actually removes it from the curriculum?

As far as a "bandaid". Well, bandaids do help. Maybe not as fast as most would want, but it helps none the less.
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#45
RE: For Black History Month
Because the states shouldn't be allowed to remove it from the curriculum. Proper historical and scientific teaching is what I'm stressing here - across the country.

And you're continuing to act as if Tiberius was serious about a geek history month when I'm pretty sure he (as I did) assumed Leo was being tongue-in-cheek. I disagree with Tiberius about a lot of things, but I'm getting irritated at you making him out to be some evil asshole when he's consistently displayed that he tries his best to live by the values of a system he thinks promotes the most equality.
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#46
RE: For Black History Month
You know what? I think greek history month is just as ludicrous as geek history month as black history month.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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#47
RE: For Black History Month
(February 20, 2012 at 1:20 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Because the states shouldn't be allowed to remove it from the curriculum. Proper historical and scientific teaching is what I'm stressing here - across the country.
Agreed 100%. This is what the dept of education is for, to ensure things like this.

Quote:And you're continuing to act as if Tiberius was serious about a geek history month when I'm pretty sure he (as I did) assumed Leo was being tongue-in-cheek. I disagree with Tiberius about a lot of things, but I'm getting irritated at you making him out to be some evil asshole when he's consistently displayed that he tries his best to live by the values of a system he thinks promotes the most equality.
Like I said before, I see now that I was wrong, and it probably was a humor to it. Then again, I think you didnt notice it was "Geek" instead of "Greek" either because you would have pointed it out to me...but, alas, my fuck up is complete!

As far as me and Tiberius, it is between me and Tiberius. I get irritated when he supports allowing people to hang whites only signs up. I get irritated by alot of things he posts and I am sure he gets just as irritated with me when I oppose him. as far as him being "consistent", I must disagree with you. He has changed his position before..one minute he is a Libertarian, the next he calls himself and anarchist, the next he calls himself a minarchist, then now he says he is a mixture of all of it. I have done the same myself...but not to the extent he has. I merely support libertarian left politics (im not too picky about them, I have argued the good and bad in most). Tiberius, on the other hand...One moment he claims he is a moral nihilist, the next minute he is claiming that a right to life is a natural and logical moral position. One moment he opposes the government legislating morality, the next moment he is for banning certain types of abortion on moral grounds. One moment he claims he is not racist and dispises racism, but the next moment he supports allowing people to be as racist as they want to be in public business. So he is not as consistent as you claim. THESE are the topics I confront him on.


(February 20, 2012 at 1:24 pm)Vaeolet Lilly Blossom Wrote: You know what? I think greek history month is just as ludicrous as geek history month as black history month.

How about a Vaeolet history Month? A month devoted to learning all about the awesomeness of VLB?
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#48
RE: For Black History Month
(February 20, 2012 at 10:04 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: Jesus fucking Christ, Rev - Leo was making a joke (I assumed) and Tiberius thumbed it up because he found it funny.

That would be because I saw "geek" but didn't see you say "greek" afterwards. I couldn't understand your pissiness.



No, his consistency is in trying to follow a system, be it an amalgam or not, that he thinks would be fair to everyone. I don't say that it's all consistent with itself or with all libertarian policies. I call myself a liberal or a centerist because I myself follow a mixture, as I'm sure most people on this board would say they do. That's fine if you confront him on inconsistencies in his logic or question his reasoning behind a statement or choice, but don't paint him up to be a secret racist asshole when you don't have all the facts or haven't heard his full story or even let him explain his case without making a judgment. Am I a racist for finding this whole topic ludicrous, even though I do believe in progressive social policies? I don't think you'll call me one.
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#49
RE: For Black History Month
Just to clarify things, I got leo's joke, hence why I gave him kudos. If he was seriously suggesting a "geek history month" then I'll gladly take back the kudos, but I have a feeling he was just trying to create some humour.

There aren't enough months in the year to teach all the history months that people will inevitably want, and favouritism isn't going to solve that problem (in fact, it'll make it worse).

Don't worry summer, I'll always be a racist in their deluded minds. There isn't any point arguing with them anymore, which is why I don't. Reverend Jeremiah, Minimalist, and bozo are all entitled to their opinions, and I'm entitled to ignore them.
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#50
RE: For Black History Month
How about this - the next time I post a video that says something disparaging against Rebecca Watson, or disagrees with a point she's making at the time, is it because I'm a misogynist and hatefully posting it to spite her and women, or is it because something about the video makes a point I agree with and find valuable?
No, there is a reason. I've been reading your posts too and I'll be fucked if I've read racism in it. I'll defend a theist on this board if I feel like someone's badgering them unduly. No one reading this thread, lurking or no, needs to hear a one-sided argument of "this person isn't perfect, and I think they're racist, so there it is."

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