I'm wondering for those whom read Quran. What where some of the criticism you have of it? What is some of the things that you found good or beautiful in it?

(February 17, 2012 at 7:31 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I'm wondering for those whom read Quran. What where some of the criticism you have of it? What is some of the things that you found good or beautiful in it?

Yes, I've read it, as background at university for a paper I was doing on the Sanusi Bedouin.


Overall,more a bit tolerant than the Torah and and NT, but just as contradictory and with just as much superstitious drivel. The Hadith is far worse;more tribal superstition and folklore than anything else.

Beautiful as literature? Not in English. However, I understand people who read Arabic claim it is very beautiful in that language.

I have no interest in dissecting the Quran or any other religious book claimed to be revealed truth.The lie is given to such claims after a very little time spent actually reading such texts..


PS: it's 'who'

Quote:Overall,more a bit tolerant than the Torah and and NT,

In what way is it more tolerant.

If you disbelieve, you're in hell.
If you're misguided, you're in hell.
You desire this world, you're in hell.

Where is the tolerance? It has the same tolerance level of the Gospels, and less tolerance then the old testament.

Quote:Beautiful as literature? Not in English. However, I understand people who read Arabic claim it is very beautiful in that language.

Well most of the Quran rhymes. But as far as meaning goes, that isn't lost in translation.

So I agree, it sounds beautiful. But I don't find most of the content beautiful.


Anyways, I take it most people on this forum haven't read Quran.

Quote:In what way is it more tolerant?

.

I thought you said you'd read it?

I was referring specifically to the admonitions towards treatment of "people of the book". That tolerance does not appear in the old or new testament.

Quote:People of the Book (Arabic: أهل الكتاب‎ ‎ ′Ahl al-Kitāb) is a term used to designate non-Muslim adherents to faiths which have a revealed scripture[1] called, in Arabic, Ahl-Al-Kitab (Arabic: الكتاب ‎ "the people of the Book" or "people of the Scripture"). The three types of adherents to faiths that the Qur'an mentions as people of the book are the Jews, Sabians and Christians.

Quote:In the Qur'an

There are many statements in the Qur'an that promote tolerance towards People of The Book. For example:

And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit. [Quran 29:46]
In other places the Qur'an says:

Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn .(3:113-115)
And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. '(3:199)'
Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . [Quran 2:62]
Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. [Quran 3:64]
Throughout Islamic history, Muslims have used these ayah (verses) to justify a variety of positions towards non-Muslims. In some places and times, Muslims showed a great deal of tolerance towards non-Muslims; in other places and times non-Muslims were treated as enemies and persecuted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book



999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
What's your point? Why would they want to,except for scholarship?

Like the New Testament and the Torah, the Qur'an claims be the revealed word of god. A meaningless thing to claim to an atheist or skeptic. First,the believer needs to provide proof of the existence of his God.

Ok if you meant tolerance in that sense, yeah it has a good sense of tolerance.

It states:
[Shakir 4:94] O you who believe! when you go to war in Allah's way, make investigation, and do not say to any one who offers you peace: You are not a believer. Do you seek goods of this world's life! But with Allah there are abundant gains; you too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; therefore make investigation; surely Allah is aware of what you do.
[Pickthal 4:94] O ye who believe! When ye go forth (to fight) in the way of Allah, be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you peace: "Thou art not a believer," seeking the chance profits of this life (so that ye may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils. Even thus (as he now is) were ye before; but Allah hath since then been gracious unto you. Therefore take care to discriminate. Allah is ever Informed of what ye do.
[Yusufali 4:94] O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this life: with Allah are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves before, till Allah conferred on you His favours: Therefore carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do.

(February 17, 2012 at 7:31 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I'm wondering for those whom read Quran. What where some of the criticism you have of it? What is some of the things that you found good or beautiful in it?

Im interested in reading it. but definitatly not going to learn arabic to do so. guess ill have to grab an english translation.

I dont like to debate with muslims when i dont have a clue what is in the Quran. (other than a half assed gcse at school)

Mark,good English translations of the Qu'ran are available free on line in pdf form, and I suspect in audio as well. Same with the bible in just about any version you can think of.

Reading the Qur'an was actually what soured my impression of Islam. Part of it was luck (I happened to turn to a lot of the more violent passages first, like the "slay them wherever you find them" and the passage, and the part of "The Women" where it tells men who fear disobedience from their wives to "scourge them". Then I flipped to the end of the book and read the passage: "you to your religion, and me to my religion" and thought that Muhammad just might have been a little schizo.

I've also heard most translations are quite bad. I find many recitations of the Qur'an very beautiful, just aesthetically. It's really great when someone is doing it with emotion. But I found the translations not to be poetic at all, and to actually be very insipid and repetitive. The first one I read was Yusuf Ali, which is inelegant and inserts a bunch of footnotes into the text that ruin the flow (as well as often being quite incendiary). He translated "clot of blood" as "germ cell", which I thought was just a pathetic attempt to make it sound scientific. I like Arberry and Pickethall much better.

The coolest thing about the Qur'an was the titles of the Surahs. "The Star", "The Spider", "The Moon", "The Dawn", "The Morning Light", "The Cleaving Asunder"...I thought I was in for a treat, as if I were about to hear how Muhammed thought the law of God manifested itself in all the manifestations in the universe (like he was going to reflect on a colony of ants, and how this was a metaphor for some greater "theological truth"). This misconception actually inspired me to write a few Surahs of my own (nontheistic versions). Instead I got a repetitive fire and brimstone sermon that had somehow got out of hand:

"Believe! You will go to paradise! There are rivers! And trees! And virgins! Those who do not believe are fools! No matter what you say, they will not believe! Their punishment will be grievous indeed! The fire will be unending! It shall be lit with the skins of the disbelievers! There will be unending suffering! But if they say sorry, it's okay. Because I am most merciful, you know..."

OK, so it's a bit of a paraphrase, but I really don't think that's an inaccurate summary.

But as for Islamic Architecture and Arabic Calligraphy ... <3 !

Gorgeous in arabic, plenty of links on youtube for anyone who has doubts. Beyond that, same as all the rest of our "revealed words". I probably don't have to elaborate.

Quote:"Believe! You will go to paradise! There are rivers! And trees! And virgins! Those who do not believe are fools! No matter what you say, they will not believe! Their punishment will be grievous indeed! The fire will be unending! It shall be lit with the skins of the disbelievers! There will be unending surfing! But if they say sorry, it's okay. Because I am most merciful, you know..."

Sounds like Australia to me....

So NOW we know WHY so many muslims are coming to our shores!!

Idiots